Today we’ve got Asha Ramakrishna and Aycee Brown, co-authors of Your Soul Map: Liberation, Human Design, and the BIPOC Experience on the show chatting about Human Design and how this framework shows up for BIPOC folks. 

In our conversation, Asha and Aycee get into how spiritual tools can help us gain a better understanding of human behavior instead of being used as a crutch to bypass responsibility. They highlight how Human Design is a story that we get to evolve and make peace with, while also recognizing the different experiences that Black and Brown people have when they engage in this modality. Asha and Aycee also elaborate on the parts that make up Human Design, including astrology, quantum mechanics, Hindu yogic philosophy, Chinese I Ching teachings, and Judaic Kabbalah.

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In episode 424 of the Embodied Podcast we discuss:

(2:38) What you can expect from the Wild Soul Sacred Body membership

(6:21) Seasonal shifts that we’re going through right now

(10:54) Asha and Aycee’s favorite parts of Your Soul Map

(17:44) How Human Design informs Asha and Aycee’s relationships with themselves and others 

(27:40) Human Design as a tool to navigate the world, particularly for the BIPOC community 

(34:48) How Asha and Aycee define the Human Design gates 

(42:49) Recognizing why you slow down or speed up 

(50:26) How Aycee and Asha like to learn and teach about Human Design 

(55:10) Using Human Design in the workplace

Resources Mentioned:

Connect with Asha:

Connect with Aycee:

Work with me:

Special offer:

Stay in touch:

Quotes from this Week’s Episode of the Embodied Podcast: 

  • We’re not going to get along with everyone. We’re not going to vibe with everyone. And that’s not something that you need to over-examine about yourself. – Elizabeth 
  • There’s no bad in human design – it’s just what you have to work with. These are the cards that you’ve been dealt, here they are, and play them to the best of your ability. – Aycee
  • I can’t just decondition. I’m dealing with ancestral trauma. I have to still deal with the things that are literally in my DNA that I’m combating. So I feel that there’s something there for everyone with these modalities, especially with Human Design. – Aycee
  • You get to be way more than what someone has prescribed to your chart or to aspects of your chart. – Asha
  • In the United States of America, we absolutely need to celebrate and uphold rest, give people spaciousness when they’re hurting, and not continue to perpetuate the extractive model on each other. – Asha

How was this episode for you?

Was this episode helpful for you today? I’d love to know what quote or lesson touched your soul. Let me know in the comments below OR share the episode on Instagram, tag me your stories @elizabethdialto, or send me a DM!

About the Embodied Podcast with Elizabeth DiAlto

Since 2013 I’ve been developing a body of work that helps women embody self-love, healing, and wholeness. We do this by focusing on the four levels of consciousness – physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual.

In practical terms, this looks like exploring tools and practices to help you tune into the deep wisdom of the body and the knowing of the heart, which I believe are gateways to our souls. Then we cultivate a new relationship with our minds that allows the mind to serve this wisdom and knowledge and soul connection, rather than override it, which is what many of us were taught.

If you’ve been doing self-help or spiritual development work for a while, these are the types of foundational things that often people overlook in pursuit of fancier concepts that often aren’t practical or sustainable. Here, we will focus on building these strong foundations so you can honestly and thoroughly embody self-love. If you’re feeling it, subscribe to the show, and leave us a review wherever you listen from. You can also keep up with show updates and community discussions on Instagram here.

Transcript for Episode 424 “Human Design Chat with Asha Ramakrishna and Aycee Brown“:

Aycee Brown  00:00

It’s just a part of us, we still have to live our lives. And that’s why Black, Brown indigenous people of color is why it’s different. Because we have a completely different life experience. So my Pisces the way I Pisces in the world, my sun sign is going to look very different from the way somebody else does it because of just my life experiences in general. And so when I’m talking to people about projectors, manifesting generators, all the things that we talked about in the book, it does have to be tweaked. And that was really the issue with the human design because they’re like, oh, decondition, I’m like, well, we got to decondition, hundreds of years of things that have happened to us in this country. So that process is gonna look a little different for me than it does for someone else. So I can’t just decondition I’m dealing with ancestral trauma. Like I have to still deal with the things that are literally in my DNA.

Elizabeth DiAlto  01:08

What’s up everybody, welcome to episode number 424 of The Embodied Podcast. Today, we have a three way I have Asha, Ramakrishna and Aycee Brown, who are both returning guests. And they’re here together because they co wrote a book called your Soul Map liberation, human design and the bipoc experience. And we are getting all up in those conversations today around human design around the book around the bipoc experience specifically, and I had a lot of fun asking them different types of questions than I’ve asked people in the past when we’ve talked about human design on the podcast. A little bit about Asha, if you’re not familiar with her, Asha is the number one bestselling author of the book The priestess code awakening, the Modern Woman, where Moon and Earth principles are revealed for more organic and harmonious approach to life, and co author of your soul map here with Aycee that we’re talking about today. She also has a background in molecular biology and business development. So ASHA has a really beautiful and unique way of breaking down esoteric teachings into practical logical approaches to living AyceeX. Brown is a psychic channel, Oracle and voice of truth. And through spiritual guidance, she offers tools that inspire and motivate others to look at all parts of themselves, so that they can develop the awareness to heal and show up in their lives fully. So this is a juicy conversation with the two of them had so much fun.

Elizabeth DiAlto  02:38

And as well, if you’re listening here in real time, I want to invite you to check out the wild souls sacred body membership between May 17 and 22nd. We are open for registration. And once we close it on the 22nd, it won’t be open again, until the end of the year, I haven’t decided if it’s going to be December or January of next year yet. But when you join the wild so sacred body membership you get me as your personal healing guide and mentor. And what I love about how this membership is designed, is you don’t have to figure things out on your own. You don’t have to dabble in practices or try to cobble together information. You don’t have to waste time trying to connect all the healing dots or figuring out you know, what’s your modern spiritual practice. And you also don’t have to break the bank to access tools and resources that everyone really deserves to experience. The thing our members love the most about the membership is our monthly guided embodiment journeys. These are the core catalysts of all of the healing, joy and liberation that we cultivate in wild soul sacred body. So each month I put together a journey that has a video lesson about the theme that we’re working on a prayer journaling, prompts, embodiment practices, Healing Meditations, rituals, energetic attunements. And all of these things are designed to meet you wherever you are, and transform your life exactly where it’s needed. as well. You don’t have to follow the embodiment journeys if you don’t want to. We have libraries with over 230 resources, tools, workshops, practices, and stuff like that. And what is amazing about having such a robust place with resources and community is that we are all so different in the different phases and stages of our lives. Sometimes we’ll have more time for practice, sometimes we’ll have less, sometimes certain practices will resonate, others won’t. There’s basically always something at your fingertips for whatever you’ve got going on and for whatever you need. And as well. If you’ve been tuning in for our energy and archetypes series, you might know that over the next nine months in the membership, we are going to specifically on our embodiment journeys, be exploring both the wild soul archetypes and the main energy centers in the body. So it’s really going to be a fun exploration and also a very deep meaningful and useful exploration in the membership on those embodiment journeys over the course of the next nine months. So if you want to check that out, go to untamed forward slash membership. And now let’s get into today’s episode. 

Elizabeth DiAlto  05:13

Welcome, everybody. This is our second to last interview for a very long time. And I’m excited to have Asha and Aycee here to talk about human design and their soul map book. And before I dive in, though, I don’t really because I wasn’t I’m not doing a whole nother like stretch of interviews, I always usually have an opening question that I start the interviews with. And I don’t think I remember to ask, Sheree in our last interview, an opening question, but I wanted to ask each of you, because we’re like, we’re doing this in the beginning of May. We’re like on the cusp of summer, but not quite yet. What’s like a seasonal and we just had these eclipses, which were like bananas. So what’s like a seasonal or a transitional? What’s like kind of bubbling up in your life right now? Only anything you want to share? Nothing like overly personal that you don’t feel like sharing? What’s a transition or what’s like a seasonal shift that you’re feeling right now. It doesn’t have to be connected to like moving into summer, it could just be like a season of your own life shifting from one thing into another possibly, if you have anything like that going on, and whoever wants to go first could go first.

Aycee Brown  06:21

I would say food has been super shifty. Just the things that I want to eat that I don’t want to eat. I’m on this making sure I meet my protein go for. It has been fucking hard thing to do

Elizabeth DiAlto  06:38

this. It’s no joke to like, eat it.

Aycee Brown  06:41

It’s very hard. But I noticed the difference when I do. So it’s about where am I getting my protein from? I finally found a protein shake that I like. So that’s been the transition is really trying to okay, how do I hit my protein goals today? Because I can’t eat meat all day, right? So I had to find a protein shake. And sometimes I don’t want the protein shake, but it’s like, oh, if I don’t have that one, then I’m only I’m 40 grams short. It’s like that’s a lot. So that’s what I’ve been actually dealing with is hitting my protein. It sounds so silly, but there is like a science to it. And then there’s tic TOCs and YouTube is a lot. I just want my protein.

Elizabeth DiAlto  07:23

I love what I asked mystical people something they give me a very practical answer because we have to be in this damn world.

Aycee Brown  07:29

Right? If knock it just have one more protein in this.

Elizabeth DiAlto  07:34

Right? Okay. All right, so Aycee is getting in her protein. Asha, how about you?

Asha Ramakrishna  07:40

I’m glad you went pretty like physical with it. Because mine is also that I am walking barefoot again, out in the woods. And to me that is like pure joy. Because I live in New England. It’s cold here. And to be able to like, go outside and walk barefoot and just like feel the messiness of the soil and whatever all of that feels like I’m alive again.

Elizabeth DiAlto  08:14

Okay, I’m gonna tell you something really funny. I don’t know that I’ve ever said this on the show in 424 episodes. Other than like the beach, like sand, or like out by a pool. I like can barely walk barefoot in like, grass, or like a forest. Like, I don’t know if my feet are like really sensitive. It is so uncomfortable for me to be stepping on like, random shit. I don’t know what it is. You would not think this about me. But I like ever since I was little even like running around in the grass. Like I need to

Asha Ramakrishna  08:50

have shoes on. Yeah, I’m probably the opposite.

Elizabeth DiAlto  08:53

So how do you do it? Like, how does it not bother you that you’re just like stepping on sticks and rocks? And like, who knows? Well, I

Asha Ramakrishna  09:00

mean, I grew up I grew up in Latin America. Like I didn’t grow up in this, you know, curated world that we’re in here in the US. So I was barefoot all the time.

Elizabeth DiAlto  09:11

I mean, I feel like I’m fearful. It’s just I just can’t step up Aycee Can you step on things like random? Because I know you’re a city person. Aren’t you from New York City to your like city slicker like me.

Aycee Brown  09:20

Yeah, I mean, I like walking bare feet. But like, I have to make sure it’s like curated barefoot like stuff. Like, I know the grass is clean. There’s not knowledge of dog pee or anything like that. Oh, my soul. Just stuff like that. But I can’t just walk out. Like I’m like my feet and I’m a Pisces, like, my feet are everything. Like, I get my pedicures. My feet are pretty I don’t have any corn.

Elizabeth DiAlto  09:49

Dying over knowledge of dog pee. But yes, this is also one of the reasons like people who just like to sit down in the grass. I cannot.

Aycee Brown  09:59

Yeah, awesome. So it’s very itchy to me, I can do that. But it just has to be a curated part.

Elizabeth DiAlto  10:06

To know, I guess for me, it feels like I’m just like to Burg over that, you know, I could look like if I look and I check it out, I could be like, alright, this is fine. But the walking around, I could like, put my feet down, like to ground or something. But one where I could be encountering, I feel like this is a very Virgo thing of me. Problem. Yeah, we’re here to talk about but it was right there. And I just had to say something about it. So I’m excited to ask you all you too, oh, human design book together. And you’ve both been on the podcast before separately. And I love I didn’t even know you knew each other when Asha told me that she was writing a book with AyceeX. I was like, This is so freakin fun. What a great combination. I would like to ask you both. And I’ll have Asha, go first, this time? What’s your favorite thing about your book?

Asha Ramakrishna  10:54

A couple of things. I think it’s the feedback. The feedback that there’s context to using human design, that we lay out a context to how to use it, and why it looks different for people of color, just using any spiritual tool. So I was really happy to get that like to hear that feedback that makes me really happy. On a personal note, it makes me really happy to begin to talk about the parts of human design like to begin to say like, this is a Hindu chakra system. This is a Chinese eaching. And there’s a foundation behind each of these things that were just barely scratching the surface. Even in the book. Again,


they say, Well, how about you,

Aycee Brown  11:46

for me what Asha said, but also to the input and the stories of other people that are really, really liked that having the interviews that we did, from black and brown people, because just from my story and human design, there was not a lot there when I started. So it’s really nice to see people come to the system and have their own, especially Clarinda. I love love, love, love, love, love, love her. And her interview was really impactful for me, because I just her breakdown of it and what she got from it and how she routed it back to so many other things, especially pertaining to black people. I just really felt like okay, she gets it. So she understands. So that’s probably my favorite part of the book is the interviews.

Elizabeth DiAlto  12:34

I love that many summers ago, I lived in Marina Del Rey. So it had to be either 2018 or 2019, a center for a human design class on like, whatever is like the Jovian archive, like, I guess the main, like, Human Design website or whatever. And when I went to login, I realized it was just me and a bunch of middle aged to older white ladies. Like and I was like, Oh man, I’m not. I’m not going to enjoy this. And I didn’t actually didn’t even finish it. And I didn’t go back to the recordings or whatever. There was just like, just the energy. So I’ve been super obsessed with it you all, you know, did this book for bipoc, folks, but I’m noticing I’m seeing a lot of people share it, who are not bipoc. So I’m curious. I know Ashley, you were saying about the feedback. What kind of feedback are you getting from white folks, because I was sharing it. I’m like, oh my god, people finally a book for us. And then there’s, I’m sure there’s white people listen to this. And my white people know, like, am I hating on you? I just don’t censor you, you know, what’s happened? Like?

Asha Ramakrishna  13:35

I think they see what we see that it’s a privilege to listen to diverse stories. And that at least that’s the initial feedback that I have. Maybe there’s other feedback of like, huh, I don’t agree, we haven’t gotten that yet. But mostly, it’s been like, Thank you for letting me know because also many of them are facilitators of some sort. And they also want to make it safe for their bipoc clients. You know, this is a way for them to sort of know what what they don’t know.

Elizabeth DiAlto  14:15

Cool. AyceeTA have Have you heard from anyone around anything like that?

Aycee Brown  14:19

Nothing bad from anyone booth doesn’t look like me. So I am sure people are treading lightly because you do have your I like to say you know how you have Beyonce stand and you have your raw stand. You know, so anything against that is what the best so there hasn’t been anything that I’ve heard that’s been like, bad. So that’s a good in my opinion. That’s a good thing.

Elizabeth DiAlto  14:51

Yeah, for anyone listening by the way raw is the person who like I guess downloaded how I don’t know how you guys describe that to human design system. Just for content. Next, but I was just curious about that. I think I don’t ask that to be contentious. But I also always have to be remembering that I’m so comfortable. Asha really knows this about me. I’m so comfortable with like conflict or like, potentially inflammatory or contentious things. But really, I’m just curious, I always want to know, like, how different people are reacting or responding or perceiving or receiving things.

Asha Ramakrishna  15:21

Can I just add one more thing to that, because there was one interview that we did that I think both of us were like, Huh. And it was from a neurodivergent astrologer who has black liberation psychology lens. And what they said made us sort of take a step back of having a critical lens, to how we even approach human design. So Amina was saying something about like, I think that the way that you all talk and teach about human design is actually quite oppressive. And so even in that we had to frame her interview as let’s first acknowledge what a privilege it is to hear from someone who we don’t typically hear from often, and who has that critical lens around something that we’re all like cheering for. But it’s important to have critical voices.

Elizabeth DiAlto  16:26

Yeah, I love how Aycee brought up like, her favorite thing about the book was that you all got to interview other people. And this is part of the case for diversity in workplaces and stuff, right? There’s so much creativity, and different ways of thinking and ideas and lived experiences. I often say that I feel like the United States, this melting pot experiment went severely wrong. But in theory, it was a great idea. Let’s bring together all different types of people, it was just that no one knew how to do that in a way that wasn’t super oppressive to the majority of those people over the course of time. So I appreciate you for sharing that.

Elizabeth DiAlto  17:04

So whenever I interview people who have written books, I’m not interested in going like point for point, like, tell me this thing that’s written in the book, tell me this thing, because it’s like, it’s in the damn book. And I want people to get the friggin book. So get the freedom book, what I’m interested in, I wrote two things down, but I want to start the specific human design, chat about what kinds of things in your own lives whether it’s personal or professional, are you just so glad that you have human design for that you’re really like, Man, this would be so much harder for me if I didn’t know these things about myself that I really never knew until I had human design in my life.

Asha Ramakrishna  17:44

I mean, for me, it’s easy, because I’m towards the tail end of raising two daughters. So I’m really grateful that 17 years ago, I had this tool and could really see them from that perspective. And the second thing would be just even in my own relationship to my partner, like it’s not easy. Being with someone for 20 some years, and being able to look at him from that lens invites me to just have more compassion.

Elizabeth DiAlto  18:19

Are there any like specific examples that you can give, like, in either context that it’s like, I never would have thought to, like, approach them this way. Or think about this thing if I didn’t know about their design.

Asha Ramakrishna  18:33

I mean, my oldest is a reflector. And in the height of my desperation, which was only like three years into her life, someone introduced me to human design. And I feel like that gave me that context to understanding why she was explosive. That as a reflector, what she was really doing was, she was the compass and barometer of our family, like of myself, like my own anger, that I was suppressing, she was expressing. And then with Glenn, my partner, I mean, that’s a constant. He’s a three, five. I’m in this constant state of the relationship of the beloved or the relationship of the teacher and the other person or the trigger, whichever expression I want to take from the fifth line,

Elizabeth DiAlto  19:22

your 401 or something else I forgot. Or one of that. How about you Aycee?

Aycee Brown  19:30

I would say, as a projector and living in this world. It’s allowed me to be a little bit more at peace, with what success is going to look like for me. Yes. So I always tell people I come from a family of generators. My parents are both generators and be Eat black, it’s about we have to do better be better, the all of that stuff. And so there’s a lot of I was taught to be a generator to go out there and you get it, you do the things, you have the things. And so learning that I was a projector was like, okay, no matter how much I do, there is still going to be a part that is waiting for someone to recognize or to see it. So there was a lot of peace in that. And it still comes with some bitterness as well. But there’s still a lot of peace in knowing that the way that my bigness happens, is going to be through invitation. And I have to just make peace with what that journey looks like. For me with keeping the hope looks like for me all of that stuff.

Elizabeth DiAlto  20:53

As a six two, I know the Six Line people are the ones who have like the different phases the like, learning and experimenting, I think it’s called being on the roof. And then you actually like, hit your stride and like 50 Plus, I’ve done so much shit in my life already. And I’m like, how am I not even 50 yet? Like, what is it possibly gonna be like when I turned 50. But I this is one of my favorite things about human design. I remember I first came across it in like 2016, I think and it’s been such a rabbit hole. I remember I told you that one time I went to take a course I was like, Oh my goodness. And seven, like slowly but surely learning over the years, I actually have loved that getting to just peel back little layers understand something a little deeply and then like add another aspect. So the part that you do talk about in the book that I haven’t talked about in either the other interviews that I would love you all to give us a rundown on is what are all the parts that make up human design. Because even when people want to ask people if they’ve ever heard of it, I’ll be like, it’s like astrology on steroids, which is so not a great description, like really doesn’t do it justice. So if either one of you or both of you in your own way want to elaborate on that, that would be amazing. What are the parts.

Asha Ramakrishna  22:10

So there is there is the astrology part. That is the foundation and the backbone, right? And so it incorporates the astrology incorporates the Hindu chakra system, which are the centers, right what’s colored in or white. It incorporates the Chinese eaching system, which is like all the numbers that you see all the gates and then when the gates are together, it’s the channel. It includes the Judaic Kabbalah, which is the way in which the center are the centers and the channels are connected. So it shows a similar dynamic as the tree of life in that system. It also incorporates quantum mechanics. So the way in which each of us synthesizes and manifests essentially, like I see it as, it’s a way in which each of us has our own, map our own formula to creating what the universe depending on our aura types.

Elizabeth DiAlto  23:14

Know that. And Asha, I know you’ve been also a student of astrology for many, many years, and different types. What did you find first? What did you dive deep into first astrology or human design?

Asha Ramakrishna  23:24

It was human design first, but my foundation was the eaching.

Elizabeth DiAlto  23:29

So you knew eaching before you knew Human Design? Yeah, interesting. Okay, cool. And so did your relationship to eating change after Human Design? Or was there any, like, human design made sense in a certain way? Because you were coming through that lens?

Asha Ramakrishna  23:44

Yeah, I would say that I had a more intimate relationship with the gates because I had already been entrained. To read the stories. In human design, we sort of like simplify it with a one word answer. You know, what each of the gates is, and the eaching is really like a story. And like any story, each of us get something different out of it. You know, like every novel you get something out of it, I get something out of it, and each center or each gate, or hexagram is a story so you’re gonna get something different than me.

Elizabeth DiAlto  24:25

Yeah, this is actually something I really dig about the gates which I’ve only gotten into in like the last two years more so is looking at like different people’s descriptions of the gates because that like as a generator person, I’m a manifesting generator, or having something to respond off of having something to like bounce off of to like, help me in my exploration is always really great. So I like looking at different people’s interpretations to land in my own at a eventually, how about UAycee what came first astrology human design or some other system? Free

Aycee Brown  24:57

oh no astrology for a while. I’ve always Been psychic channel, medium kind of always that thing, but astrology was my first love, you know, buying astrology books and doing that when I was like 15. So that was first. And when I got into the human design world, it was weird because no one talked about astrology. We naturally talk about that in the book. And we also talked about that as we were writing the book, like, so many people just go to human design, they don’t really know about astrology. And we didn’t see them working together at all. Like you can’t have one without the other. Yeah, so astrology is so great. Human Design is great, but you have to have them both. You just can’t do one without the other.

Elizabeth DiAlto  25:47

And kind of similar, like for Asha. So coming from an astrology lens. Did that like influence are kind of paint your exploration of human design? Or?

Aycee Brown  25:59

Yes and no. So when I first saw human design chart, shockingly, I got it before I even know it was happening. Because many people don’t know this. But at one point in my life, when I was in junior high school, I wanted to be an architect. And I had this teacher, I was in sixth grade. And he was like the president of the Black Architects like of America, in Atlanta, Georgia. And he would always give us assignments, and I’ve always excel at them. So I was always good with measurements and numbers in like, execute, shape and form. Don’t ask me to do math, but I can if you give me some formula to like, draw out something, I could do it really well. And so when I saw the human design chart, it’s sort of look like that for me, like PVC, is I was like, oh, okay, I picked it up really quickly. And then I was like, oh, I should look into this more. So anything with this interesting thing with like numbers and things, I can put that together very quickly, in my mind. And so when I saw the chart, it wasn’t odd. For me. It didn’t look like what most people like, Oh, this looks weird. I was just like, oh, okay, this is interesting. And then I just started learning more about it. And it became really easy to understand it for me. And especially when I started really figuring out who in my life like bosses, I didn’t like co workers, their order types, it became very, very easy.

Elizabeth DiAlto  27:35

All right, I’m so glad you just said that. I was gonna ask you something else next, but we’re taking this tangent. Can we please talk about not liking people? How does human design help us navigate? Because not liking people? I relate to this as like resonance, right? Because when I don’t like people, I’m not like, what that person. I’m just like, for me, you know, it’s more of like, a discernment thing. I don’t wish them harm, like, whatever I’m like, that’s just not my flavor. Like, it doesn’t. I’m actually I’m a I’m an open tastes person. So one of the things that I’ve come to realize, as I’ve gotten into that aspects of human design is, even if it’s not something that I could literally physically taste in my mouth, my taste in things matters, like something needs to like, be or feel delicious to me, even if it’s just experientially for me to like, want to engage with it. So do you know like, I don’t know, this is a very selfish question, because I just don’t like a lot of people. Like, I was talking to someone about this yesterday. I’m like, I love humanity. But I don’t like a lot of people. I don’t know why it makes me laugh so hard. Because I feel like spiritual people are not supposed to admit shit like that. But a lot of my spiritual friends are like me, either. But again, it’s like a resonance thing. So I see Asha, you unmuted yourself? What do you want to say?

Asha Ramakrishna  28:54

Well, just saying, I know this about you. And I know sometimes. Living in this world is a whole thing. And we have to not only contend with our own shit, but what ever everyone else is also caring. Yeah. So it’s hard because people are operating from all kinds of consciousness, right? Sometimes people are just like, not even aware. Like, they’re not even aware that they’re being an asshole. They’re not even aware that they’re being that their auric field is like trying to gain attention, or that they are reacting to the community or the environment, or that they’re exhausting other people, right? Like we’re not aware. I’ll give you an example. So we went with our family. It was like 13 of us or so went hiking, backpacking, and I was like, oh, no, I must get everyone’s chart. Because I have to know Oh, who they are all this job and give me that lens to understand all the wildness that happens out in the wild with like people being exhausted. This is hard. Their food I got in like the weather.

Elizabeth DiAlto  30:19

You looked up 13 charts before going on a family hike? Yes. Is it like a big hike? Oh, so this wasn’t like nice. Okay, so this is like a backpacking adventure? Yes.

Asha Ramakrishna  30:33

I mean, you can understand, right? How you only way I can survive this is if I bring a little more elevated lens to this experience.

Elizabeth DiAlto  30:45

I’m saying this is so funny. And so what did that help you do?

Asha Ramakrishna  30:49

Well, it helped me understand why people would act a certain way.

Elizabeth DiAlto  30:54

This is what I always say, I love that any of these systems, astrology, human design, whatever. And I think you mentioned this earlier when you were talking about Glenn. Given my proclivity to not like that many people, I don’t have to judge them, I can actually have a ton of compassion because I could be like, got it. We just don’t vibe because this is unbuilt like this you’re but like this, these things clash? Like, that’s one of the reasons I love these systems so much. Basically, how about you?

Aycee Brown  31:19

I’m not saying people, I love people, certain things. I don’t like that people do, but I can’t control it. Yeah, my I would like to remind my business. When it comes to people, I noticed patterns, especially with human design. So human design has truly helped me say, oh, I can, I can spot probably open root center a mile away, especially when I’m around them physically. I’m just like you they have open routes in general, because I just think you’re all over the place. Or you like doing things or it’s, it’s an energy that because I have a defined route Center. I’m just I just go with the flow kind of thing, or I can’t be pressured in that area. And so I would say human design has truly given me insight on the types of people that I don’t want to say that I don’t like that just might not be aligned with me. Yeah. I’ll say that.

Elizabeth DiAlto  32:28

The note I’m making here, as you’re saying this is like, because there’s also a big difference between using things like this to judge people. And using things like this to accept people as they are. And I do more of an acceptance. Yes, yes. Right. So even though I’m saying, I just want to give people permission not to like everybody, and I’m always an advocate for again, not to talk shit not to make them wrong, just from like a discernment place. Like when I say don’t like I mean, don’t vibe, right? Like, that’s just not Aycee, use the word alignment, use whatever word you want to use. But like, you know, we’re not for everybody. And everybody is not for us. Because and especially in these like in spiritual, like healing kind of coaching spaces. I think often people confuse the passion, meaning that they have to like, like, or love or get along with everybody. And I’m like, none of us are built that way. Like, we’re not going to get along with everyone. We’re not going to vibe with everyone. And that’s not something that you need to like, over examine about yourself sometimes, right? It’s like, oh, by being a judgy bitch, or it’s just like, this doesn’t work for me. You know, something I appreciate so much that you all did in your book with the definitions of the gates, you did I forget exactly how you termed it. But it was like the higher expression in the lower expression. And is that how you termed it, you called it something else?

Asha Ramakrishna  33:54

I think that’s how he called it.

Elizabeth DiAlto  33:56

What I appreciated about that so much is because in our social media age, where it’s so easy, like human design and astrology, it’s like rampant on like, I think about Instagram, especially like these generalizations of like types and signs. And this is the Virgo and this is the Gemini and this is the whatever. Often I’m looking at these like, doesn’t relate. Because that’s like the lower expression like I’ve just evolved beyond that, like basic. For example, the one I always use is like Virgos are perfectionist. I’m not a perfectionist. You know, like, I’m very discerning about a lot of things. I have high standards about certain things, other things. I could care less like, if you all could see the amount of clutter in my apartment right now. You’d be like she’s a Virgo, right because of those stereotypes. So I would love to hear both of you speak into that. Like, why did you make that choice and why was it important to you to acknowledge like, both ends,

Aycee Brown  34:48

I would say mostly because there’s no bad in human design. There’s no bad anything. It’s just what you have to work with. That’s really it like these are the cards that you’ve been dealt here they are her play them play them to the best of your ability. But this is what it looks like, in its highest form. This is what it looks like in its lowest form and how it can show up. Who are you?

Asha Ramakrishna 35:10

Yeah, and even following the thread of it’s a story. It’s a story that we get to evolve change. It’s a living system, like all these systems, especially the foundational systems that make up human design, are living evolving emergent systems. And so are the ways in which we express whatever energies we have consistency in, you know, and like one of the things is like, because I’m learning so much right now on yo dish, Vedic Astrology. And they talk a lot about how the map of our astrology that some people can look at it as like, this is your destiny. But the yo Tish look at is like, you know why your astrology chart is only 30%? Of what influences you? Because 70% is really what are you going to do with that? Yes, like, what are we going to do with this? Right, like, so if there’s this, you know, let’s say, like a directive thing of one of the chart, you know, like even taking the Virgo example, right? If there’s like a certain way of Virgo going, and you want to evolve it, why do you have to encase yourself in the definition of what Virgo is, it’s just a sort of a lens by which you can look at yourself, but it’s not intended to box you in to be like, Well, I’m Virgo, therefore, I’m going to do this way. And this, I’m going to do life. No, you get to be way more than what someone has prescribed to your chart or to aspects of your chart.

Elizabeth DiAlto  36:52

And that’s possible for everything I like I always love saying that, like you get to transcend like your chart, you get to transcend your placements, like it’s good to know. But I like how you put that like, but what are you going to do with it? Like one of the things I appreciate about it is I also feel like it’s a map for what things are probably going to come pretty easily naturally to me, what things are going to be a bit more challenging for me. So I can also give myself a lot of grace and compassion and acceptance and be like, I’m not really built to excel in that. But it doesn’t mean I can’t do it just means I might have to work a little harder at it, if I want to see you look like you were the wheels are spinning, you’re gonna say something?

Aycee Brown  37:28

No, I was just thinking about what you said about 30% with astrology and how they look at it. And I feel that that’s where this book helps. And with all of these modalities help, it’s just a part of us, we still have to live our lives. And that’s why Black, Brown indigenous people of color is why it’s different. Because we have a completely different life experience. So my Pisces the way I Pisces in the world, my sun sign is going to look very different from the way somebody else does it because of just my life experiences in general. And so when I’m talking to people about projectors, manifesting generators, all the things that we talked about in the book, it does have to be tweaked. And that was really the issue with the human design because they’re like, oh, decondition, I’m like, well, we got to decondition, hundreds of years of things that have happened to us in this country. So that process is gonna look a little different for me than it does for someone else. So I can’t just decondition I’m dealing with ancestral trauma, like I have to still deal with the things that are literally in my DNA that I’m combating. So I just feel that there’s something there for everyone with these modalities, especially with human design. You know, I hate to say human design works, because it does work. But we still have to get past the things that we’ve been through.

Elizabeth DiAlto  39:01

And like anything else, the spiritual tools can also be used to bypass. So this is such a great example. And I’m so glad you made that like just decondition just decondition your open centers, what you’ve taken on from other people, it’s like, alright, but you know, for some people what that is, and what that looks like, is going to be super different. I’m super curious. I don’t know why I feel like asking you all today the like, I don’t I don’t want to use the term like hard hitting questions, because I don’t think they’re hard hitting, especially not for you too. And nor do I think they’re controversial. They just feel like a little just different, like, I guess, uncommon. I really want to ask, What do you all seeing and not from a judgy place, but knowing what you know about human design, and especially the extra depth and care that you’ve taken to consider other people’s lived experiences and to really dive a bit deeper into all the parts and pieces that make up that are synthesized to create the system. When you look out in the general world like on social media or wherever about the way people are trying to like Teach and get people to be interested in human design? Where do you see like the biggest like gaps or lakhs of like meaning contexts? Like, what are the things? I guess another way I could ask it is, what do you wish people would stop oversimplifying? Or what do you wish people would stop glossing over so that people could get more in there? Does that make sense?

Asha Ramakrishna  40:24

Yeah, I mean, I think like one of the things that I celebrate about the current human design landscape is that it’s gotten people in the door. Yeah. And what I would critique is that there is probably less nuance and like to be a human design reader really, actually requires us to have way more tools to support people in their own liberation, because of something as like, you know, like what you said of like, when people just say, we’ll just decondition if we leave people with just decondition, we’re not really giving them much, we’re telling them something that they already know. And so it’s what it’s like the depth of what you bring to your clients, or people in your life, that allows them to use this tool as a way of seeing themselves in as a way of understanding how each person is wired. But there’s more behind that says, you know, there’s more behind that map. It’s like handing somebody an astrology chart and being like, alright, live that, well. How do I live being a Leo mercury, right? If I’ve lived in a family that has always not allowed me to speak? And that’s what I know. And maybe there were reasons why my family didn’t allow me to speak because it kept me safe. And so now you’re asking me to just jump through all this way in which I learned to be? And how are you helping me take those steps. So the depth of the human design community, I think, is what I would critique the most. Thank you,

Aycee Brown  42:21

I would say the same like the community as a whole, what I will critique, what I love is that it gives you insight about, well, it puts a spotlight on whether or not you were I don’t wanna say doing something right or wrong. But if you found resistance in your life, that maybe this is why, like you were going against something naturally, that happens, or can happen for you.

Elizabeth DiAlto  42:49

Finding out really learning how to work with my emotional authority is a good example of that for me, because I very decisive, but I realized that most of the years of my life that I was like, being decisive, I was going with like the first impulse, I really had to learn the difference between like impulse and intuition, and impulse and like, riding that emotional wave, right, because whatever the first hit was, which, as I’ve come to learn about other authorities, too, that’s more for like, splenic people. But for me, I would just take the information from the first hit, make a choice, and then be like, Oh, shit, I was having to cancel things, breaking commitments. Instead of being like, cool. My initial feeling on this is this, but let me like, ride this out, for at least a day, if not a little bit more, which this revolutionized my dating life. Because I had to tell you how often I would be excited about someone and then by the next day, be like, Oh, not so much. And have to just like, ride the DMV, if not be like making plans, like, Yeah, let’s definitely go out a second date, or like, whatever and be like, I just tell people straight up, I’m like, You know what, I’m the type of person who needs to sleep on things like I’m gonna let you know, in a day or two, that has really changed my life. And it’s also really helped me to justify slowing down. Which listen, I think everyone, however, you need to justify it, we all probably need to slow down a little bit. Because we live in a culture and a society that’s always like, now faster. Do it already. Any thoughts on that? Not even my specific experience, but like dealing with a culture that’s so fast? Like how can human design help us slow down in our own ways? Or rest? Because I know that’s a big part of that conversation, too.

Asha Ramakrishna  44:33

You know, the thing that comes up is I remember my daughter having a moment in her junior year, which is like a really hard year for most high schoolers. And she said, this world is not wired for me. Woof and being a reflector, right. And so I was like, You know what, it just means that you have to negotiate who you are. are in this world a little more. Like you have to allow for more space to make decisions, you have to actually be thinking about decisions way longer than most people who are not reflectors, because you gotta be like thinking this through. And then the moment where you’re being made to make a decision, you’ve already been thinking about it. So that’s, that’s the thing that that comes up. And I would agree with you that in this United States of America, we absolutely need to celebrate and uphold rest, give people spaciousness when they’re hurting, and not continue to perpetuate the extractive model on each other.

Aycee Brown  45:56

I would say, just speaking about the emotional wave, because I’m an emotional authority. My mom said something to me. I mean, she’s like, Oh, I know how you like, I know how you get bored. And I’m just like, No, I’m not bored. I’ve just changed my mind, because I’ve rode my wave and certain things. And so speaking on that, and slowing down, I don’t know if I agree with slowing down on things that are in alignment. If it’s in alignment, of course, what’s the rush? But why are we slowing it down? You wouldn’t slow down if someone said, You know what, Elizabeth, here’s a million dollars, you look like you’ve been doing really good work out in the world? Are you going to tell them? You know what, let me think about this. I wouldn’t take that money.

Elizabeth DiAlto  46:46

Why someone given me a million dollars, what did they want to return? Like, I would need to, I need to detail these

Aycee Brown  46:53

notes. There’s no details, there’s nothing. They just here’s a million dollars, it’s a cup of coffee to them, giving someone a million dollars.

Elizabeth DiAlto  47:03

I mean, if there were really no strings, and that was very clear and evidence, of course, then you didn’t take it. I like that. So not everything requires. That was a generalized question, like in a culture that wants everything yesterday.

Aycee Brown  47:18

But for people who look like us, you’re meek, somebody’s offering you a million dollars, because of you and your background, you’re gonna question it. Someone who doesn’t look like us, and then we’re like, Alright, cool. So maybe it’s like, in some ways, the slowing down is our own traumatic resistance. So in some cases,


maybe it’s just an alignment, maybe supposed to happen that way. And it’s just maybe someone’s just about $20 million.

Asha Ramakrishna  47:49

I would push back a little bit. I mean, I think running with something that flows great. And if it feels good, and you have support, to like, run with this thing, amazing. And the spaciousness of enjoying our morning, enjoying nature and joining that, I mean, even creativity, you know,

Elizabeth DiAlto  48:16

yeah, I don’t think it’s contextual, right? Like, I asked to frickin generalized questions. And now you all are inserting context, which is great.

Aycee Brown  48:22

Yeah, no, I yeah, of course, enjoy the beach, enjoy the hugs, enjoy that. But like, anyone listening, if you’ve been listening this podcast for a year, if you want to write

Elizabeth DiAlto  48:40

me a million dollars, feel free. I’m gonna let Aycee helped me with my resistance to receive your million dollar Pay Pal deposit, just send it over, we’ll put the link in the show notes. I’m super curious to so there’s your book. I love learning. And not only do I love learning, and I’m a lifelong learner of so many things, but I’m a student of learning. Right. And this is something I’ve been more on recently, as I’ve been navigating my own understanding my own neuro divergence. And after doing the real uplevel interview series, where one of our interviews was how to be more inclusive and supportive for neurodivergent people, people I’ve always known people learn differently. But personally, for me, I love a book for like a reference. And I love that your book is both it’s just a great reference. Like there’s stuff that you can just like flip through like the gate explanations in the back but then there’s also all this context and this like meaty stuff in the front of the book with like, the interviews and different people’s experiences. So I love a book for like some foundational and some reference and then to be like a jumping off point to maybe like okay, cool, let me go get a reading or let me maybe take a course if I want to just know more have a better understanding of my chart or whatever. So I’m curious for you all because your teachers to have you like to teach Where do you like to start? Like, you know what I mean? And I know you’ve both been readers. I don’t know that you’re actively doing readings right now. But let us know in case anyone wants to do a reading with you. I guess the question is around like order of operations, right. And again, I don’t want to ask another generalized questions, because it’s going to be different for everyone. But in terms of just like your opinions on how you like to either teach or learn such a complex thing.

Aycee Brown  50:26

I like to just teach from my experience, what I see what I know, and also the actual theory of it. So I have different names for different gates in human design, that I have my own stuff that my own reference points. But I like to also say, this is what it means in the general context. But this is also how I interpret it, but also interpret it your way that it’s going to make sense to you, you know, I’ll give an example of a particular gait. And I’ll say, This is why I call it this. And but to make it make sense for other people. And so I like to teach that way from my own experience, but also take your experience, and filter it with that. So that’s how I like to teach it. When I’m, you know, working with clients coaching wise, or, you know, strategy wise, I’m going to influence my input more based off of what I see. But that’s also using more of my other tools, like just what I see or what I hear from my guides.

Elizabeth DiAlto  51:32

Yes, I can say actually had an astrology reading recently with a friend of mine who’s super intuitive. I personally, when I get readings, I will only work with people who are very intuitive. Like you all have used Aussies use the word story, I think, Aycee use the word map. And I think you both also, he’s both someone who can like look at the recipe and be like, oh, yeah, but the way this works with that, and the way these two like kind of weave in, I love when someone is able to like intuit the map or the story in a way that gives me something to like, chew on and process,

Asha Ramakrishna  52:07

especially with human design, I would say that through the 17 years that I’ve been with this system, I have loved asking people how they experience a certain energy, because that gives me depth to understand. And so if I’m obviously I’m not a projector, right? But I asked projectors a lot of questions about their experience, so that when I do do a reading for a projector, or a reading or work with them, I bring that I bring what I know about others to what that person could be experiencing. Now then the other thing that I, especially with human design, because there’s like so many realms to it, is I like to look at kind of like a ring of influence, right? What is the most important thing that they need to know. So like Casey and I were saying, we don’t understand how people are doing Human Design readings without looking at the astrology. So even that is like this is an important before you get to the next moment of understanding your human design chart or your strategy, you must understand the bigger picture. So that I like to do and then for myself, personally, I am the Forever student. So I think this book inspired me to deepen I’m now in like year long a Kabbalah studies and you know, becoming a yo dish astrologer too. And I think it inspired me to be like, You know what I need, I need to know more about the parts.

Elizabeth DiAlto  53:58

And I’ve talked about this before, but like I know, Asha definitely knows AyceeN. And I’ve worked in the Akashic records for many years now. And one of the things I noticed as a reader is because I’m just such a student of so many things, my context and what I’m able to receive and share from the records. It’s almost like I have so many more receptors, to receive things to share with people because I have context for it. So I’m hearing that and what you’re saying to, right, like you’re going deeper in Kabbalah studies in the Vedic studies, that’s absolutely going to influence how you read a human design chart, because you now have a deeper and different context for those aspects of the thing. I like that I geek out on stuff like that so much. We’re coming up on our time. So I do I love a wrap up question like this. Obviously, you know, your book came out like a month or so ago. And so I’m sure you’ve been having all kinds of conversations with all kinds of people about it. Is there anything that No one has asked you or people aren’t asking you that much that you would friggin love to say about this book that I could give you the opportunity to say, before we sign off here?

Asha Ramakrishna  55:10

Well, I think that one of the things that we kind of like dropped in the book is that this actually can be a tool that helps people in the workplace. And if people can become just a little more open minded, on the use of something that is astrology based, it can really validate people’s experiences and actually make teams more cohesive. And you know, that whole innovative thing that people say they want in business, but they really don’t, that can really give context to what innovation can look like and teams,

Elizabeth DiAlto  55:52

I can really just like, raise my hand and be like, yes, absolutely. Because whenever we bring new people on the team, I always get their human design charts, and I share about mine, because then we can like, really utilize each other’s strengths, really not get agitated with each other, kind of in similarly to what we’ve said in other contexts, right? Like, I can know, like, what this person is going to be amazing at maybe what they’re not going to be great at, where I could pick up some slack, or where I might need some patience, or where they might get agitated with me. Like, I really, I love that so much. Basically, how about you,

Aycee Brown  56:26

I would say the same thing with the business helps so much, oh, man, with communicating and understanding who you’re working with, how they work, why it’s important, what’s the most effective thing they can do for you based off of your chart, what you need, also helps with what you need from other people where people can fill in the gaps with you. And of course, just understanding more about your type. And what that means. And what how to make it mean something for you.

Elizabeth DiAlto  57:00

Yeah, I love that you use the phrase fill in the gaps, because that’s what it feels like. Right? It’s like, alright, if I have, I’m good here, here’s where I have little, like, nutrient deficiencies, and how I’m built. I like to think of it that way. So like these people could be my supplements or we can supplement each other love that. And that also, to me is such a beautiful opening into more liberatory relationships in workplaces, as well as inclusivity. Right? Because it’s like so much that undermines inclusivity is this desire for sameness, right? That like white supremacy culture wants, but then when we go, oh, goodness, if we could all just acknowledge how different we all are, and and surround ourselves with people who could fill in where we need it. This is so good. Okay, great. So the book, anywhere books are sold, they can find it right.

Asha Ramakrishna  57:55

There any primary place Amazon? Yeah, Amazon reviews are super, super important for us. All so

Elizabeth DiAlto  58:03

great. And obviously everyone show notes you can go to untamed forward slash podcast. This is episode number 424. We’re gonna put links to everything you’ll be able to find out you’ll be able to find Aycee on the socials on their websites, all their offerings. And then real quick, this episode is actually going up like next week 15th. So anything Asha or Aycee you got going on that you want people to check out immediately.

Asha Ramakrishna  58:31

No, just get and book and leave that review. 

Elizabeth DiAlto  58:39

All right, y’all. Thank you so much. We’ll see you later.