My friend Jadah Sellner, author and business mentor, joins me on this episode to talk about the takeaways and creative process behind her latest book, She Builds: The Anti-Hustle Guide to Grow Your Business and Nourish Your Life. We discuss what it looks like to detox from hustle culture, lead with love, and embody your own definition of success. This book is a full integration of the masculine and feminine, providing both a practical and holistic point of view on how to avoid burnout and discover more flow in your life.

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Jadah’s perspective on entrepreneurship and personal development is such a breath of fresh air. I can’t wait for you to hear our conversation and get your copy of She Builds!

In episode 409 of the Embodied Podcast we discuss::

  • [3:24] Setting the standard of inclusive, trauma-informed teachers and mentors.  
  • [10:00] Receiving feedback in a constructive way and working through your unconscious biases.  
  • [18:13] Jadah’s business philosophy: love over metrics.  
  • [22:46] Why is the baseline goal to be a seven-figure business owner
  • [25:48] What ‘anti-hustle culture’ is all about.  
  • [29:57] Embracing your pace and following the seasons of your life.  
  • [39:22] Inside-out processing vs. outsourcing your answers and decisions to other people.  
  • [46:00] What we learned in Alexandra Franzen’s course: Marketing Without Social Media 
  • [51:38] Jadah’s reflections on the creative writing process.

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Resources mentioned by Elizabeth in the episode:

Don’t miss an episode of The Embodied Podcast.

Quotes from this Week’s Episode of the Embodied Podcast: 

  • When you’re getting any type of feedback, criticism, or even just a preference, there’s a digestion period. Just receive it. Don’t feel that you need to respond right away, or fix and resolve right away. – Jadah 
  • There’s such a through line of what everyone’s truly struggling with. It isn’t about the marketing mechanism or how to reach more people. It’s really time and energy management. – Jadah 
  • Get clear on what your priorities and your values are in this season of your life. I’m not knocking the metrics or the goals if that’s what drives you, but for most people that I work with, they just want flexibility in their time. – Jadah 
  • Being online is not the only way to build a successful business. – Jadah 
  • What are those things that we need that make us come alive and feel super inspired to get to the work that’s in front of us? – Jadah

How was this episode for you?

Was this episode helpful for you today? I’d love to know what quote or lesson touched your soul. Let me know in the comments below OR share the episode on Instagram, tag me your stories @elizabethdialto, or send me a DM!

About the Embodied Podcast with Elizabeth DiAlto

Since 2013 I’ve been developing a body of work that helps women embody self-love, healing, and wholeness. We do this by focusing on the four levels of consciousness – physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual.

In practical terms, this looks like exploring tools and practices to help you tune into the deep wisdom of the body and the knowing of the heart, which I believe are gateways to our souls. Then we cultivate a new relationship with our minds that allows the mind to serve this wisdom and knowledge and soul connection, rather than override it, which is what many of us were taught.

If you’ve been doing self-help or spiritual development work for a while, these are the types of foundational things that often people overlook in pursuit of fancier concepts that often aren’t practical or sustainable. Here, we will focus on building these strong foundations so you can honestly and thoroughly embody self-love. If you’re feeling it, subscribe to the show, and leave us a review wherever you listen from. You can also keep up with show updates and community discussions on Instagram here.

Transcript for Episode 409 “She Builds with Jadah Sellner“:

Jadah Sellner  00:00

Taking a step back, whether it’s social media or a podcast or whatever that is, like if you are honoring like what your true needs are in the moment. Yeah. And it may mean that you do sacrifice profit, it may mean you may have to borrow money or get a loan or credit card, whatever, you know, if you have those access to those type of resources, there are seasons when we are contracting, and that is healthy. And okay. And there are seasons when we are expanding.

Elizabeth DiAlto  00:34

Hello, everybody. Welcome to episode number 409 of embodied with Elizabeth D alto. Today we have a returning guest with us, my dear friend Giada Sellner. And Jada is here to talk about her new book, which is called she builds, we are super excited to have this conversation today. When I was living in Oakland, in 2021, Jada was working on the book, we would go on walks, and talk about the creative process and writing and editing and all of these things. So it is extra exciting today to be speaking with her as the book is now out in the world. And you will know how much I love geeking out about creative process. And anything that has to do with building or creating things in ways that are counterculture. And one of the number one things Jada talks about in her book is being anti hustle. So I hope you love this and you do not need to be an entrepreneur to get something out of this episode. So let’s dive in.

Elizabeth DiAlto  01:43

Giada Welcome back for like the fifth or seventh time I’ve lost.

Jadah Sellner  01:48

There’s like a blurry line between when we’re talking in a recorded conversation and behind the scenes and our Voxer message life updates to

Elizabeth DiAlto  01:56

right, right, which we had like time is so strange. I feel like we caught up recently, but it had been a long time.

Jadah Sellner  02:02

Yeah, I feel like it’s the blip, right? There’s like this blip and timeline. I don’t know what time space continuum, you’re in

Elizabeth DiAlto  02:09

the wild. And so today, we’re gonna talk about your book and a little while, but it’s also wild to me, because when I just moved up to the bay, you were like, getting your book deal. And we were going on walks and we were talking about it. And we were switching editors and these things were happening. And then it’s like and now the books here. Yeah,

Jadah Sellner  02:26

it feels and 2020. It’s like, wow, that was two years ago. Yeah.


The hell. It’s wild. It’s It’s mind boggling to me.

Elizabeth DiAlto  02:35

So first thing I’m asking everyone, this season of the podcast is what is bringing you the most joy right now.

Jadah Sellner  02:44

So hip line, my favorite dance studio in Oakland, classes are open back up. So being in a physical space, where the disco lights on, there are brick walls, and the lights are dumb, and you’re just in community with women, non binary folks, and we are shaking our asses to some Beyonce. We’re just getting down. And the instructor that I found during the pandemic, when everything was locked down and doing dance on Zoom, to do their class in person was so cathartic. And she’s very trauma informed. And so there’s a lot of touching our skin as we’re dancing. We’re shaking like pushing the energy shaking our bodies the way that animals do to really ground the nervous system are also listening to beautiful chorus with hands on heart and just breathing and sitting lying down. So it’s a whole, like body church for me. I bet you that was probably what brought me joy in our last conversation. But it’s been so many years since I’ve been in the studio in a group of people just dancing and sweating. And so, so so joyful. And Zoey loves this teacher too. And I think I might be able to get Zoey to actually do the class in person one day,

Elizabeth DiAlto  04:14

I was literally going to ask you that if he’s always going to class with you. I love this. And as you were talking, I was just looking up like when is your episode? What is your episode number and when it goes live, so this will be live on November 28, which is episode number 409. And the reason I was looking at that is we’re still up in till December 12 enrolling for our sacred embodiment specialist training. And I’m just so happy to hear it in in more common places for someone to be so enthused that the instructor is trauma informed. Yeah. And really inclusive in their teaching because this is something that my students are always like, Yo, we get so spoiled here. And then we go to other places and forget What it’s like I myself about a year ago, you know me every couple of years, I’ll go through a stint of like being into yoga for like, a month, and then I’ll be like, Alright, I got my yoga Phil for like, the next 36 months, you know. And one of the things that made me pop out of that studio was just like, pretty consistent like fat phobic comments. The woman who owns it is vegan and she’s like real judgy like kind of passive aggressively pushing veganism on people any opportunity she gets. And then one day I had like this big emotional release. And she’s the kind of instructor that really wants people to all be moving together. But I needed to be in child’s pose and cry.

Jadah Sellner  05:44

While you know, as that’s exactly what my teacher was, like, the previous class, a student just sat in the corner and was an in Child Pose and whatever your body needs in this moment, like, just you hear, yeah,

Elizabeth DiAlto  05:57

honestly, you know, I joke that I’m a facilitation snob. But it’s not even about being a snob anymore. Like, my standard is trauma informed, and inclusivity when it comes to bodies, especially after the pandemic, people’s nervous systems are jacked. People have different and more sensitivities, people have gained weight people. It’s not just that, right? There’s always so many reasons, but like, why not be more sensitive to people’s experiences and be more apt like, that only provides a better experience, like, no harm, no foul and be better at that. And so yeah, excuse

Jadah Sellner  06:34

they refuse. And it’s interesting. Even in my book, I had a cultural sensitivity reader. Yeah, it’s my book. And it was such a gift and the way that they did comments, and not only just sharing where, like, something might be sensitive, giving me resources and articles to go learn and inform, and just finding where my own unconscious biases live. And like, I want to learn, I want to be more inclusive, and I’m gonna get it wrong, I’m not going to get everything right or be able to be aware. So I want to be called out called in, and then adjust. I didn’t know before, but now I know. And so I’m willing to make that edit that change. And I’m sure there’s many things because that person is only one person with a certain lens of view, embodied experience and lived experience. So yeah, that’s my stance is yeah, if it gets called out, like, call me in, and I will make the shift and do better,

Elizabeth DiAlto  07:32

totally. And I was talking to someone about this recently, something that really bugs me about where we’ve gotten to as a culture with like, canceled culture and call out culture and these things, is that the way people do that stuff that’s not trauma informed either. This the typical, like, that’s real, like, chicken and egg, and like paradoxical to mix. It’s like, cool, you want these people to do better, but you’re treating them like pieces of shit, and dehumanizing them in the process of trying to get them to do better. That’s just not an effective strategy on any level, and then you’re wanting them to, like, know better and do better five minutes later. But like, we need a window to catch up. And it’s so interesting to me, this is like a pet peeve of mine, where people do that to people who actually are like working quite hard to better know, like, great. And also we all have full lives. And we all like why are we going to I don’t like using the word attack because it’s not an attack. But where are we going to be shitty to people who actually care? Yeah, and even that, like that urgency like that is a tool of whiteness of white supremacy. So it’s just like, Y’all, we all really need to just stay calm down a little bit be a little more kind. I love this that you had the cultural sensitivity reader, I inadvertently ended up being a cultural sensitivity reader for a friend of mines book that was reading it and I was like, I was reading an early copy. And I was like, Yeah, you want my notes here on this kind of stuff that she was like, yes, she was going to have a reader anyway. But she basically showed up to her reader with my notes was like great, thanks. But the job for me tell you about that experience. What if you don’t mind sharing? Could this is also and you know, people listening we’re audio only now we do little video blurbs for social media but Jada if you don’t know, Jada, if this is your first time hearing on the podcast, Jada is also a mixed race multi ethnic person. So she’s not like a white lady out here. Which also, again, white people get to learn and catch up to, but it also shows that just being a person of color doesn’t inherently make you more tense, which I think yeah,

Jadah Sellner  09:41

right. And also even thinking about the generation that we have grown up in and the comedy and all the things you know, like we know what we love to watch and laugh at and be I think we’re both xennials Right? Gen X and millennials.

Elizabeth DiAlto  09:55

are my favorites, a geriatric millennial Come on.

Jadah Sellner  10:00

And so yes, because I’m half black Chinese weight. And so I’ve got, you know, I’ve got a melting pot just inside me. So with one, I was trying to get my publisher to actually pay for the cultural sensitivity read to get publishers to be more invested that this is important if we’re going to be putting these bodies of work, like in books out into the world to have that, you know, but I ended up investing within on my own with an outside editor that I had hired. And there were definitely pieces of me of like, my Inner Mean Girl is like, you’re doing it wrong. So that’s my like, first immediate reaction is like, oh, shit, I fucked up, like, I messed up like I need to just kind of allowing myself to digest the comments first, too. Yes. And that’s even even if you’re not doing a sensitivity read, but you’re getting any type of feedback, criticism, just a preferences, there’s a digestion period of just to receive it, and not feel that you need to respond right away, or fix and solve resolve right away. So for me, I need to just take it and read it, digest it, sleep on it come back, because my immediate reaction, when I read any type of feedback, is there’s a defensiveness that can come up in that moment. So that was a practice that I really had to learn not taking things. So personally, is not about me, right? Like, it’s about the readers experience. And so that was really helpful. And also identifying places where I might have been causing harm through even fatphobia, right, of working with health and wellness company with Simple Green Smoothies, losing weight, like just all of these things. And I’d have one editor that be like, I get what you’re saying, and it’s not like that big of a deal. Like, but maybe you could say it like this, or, you know, so it’s like I could choose, I could be in choice around it. But I always wanted to take the stance of how can I be as inclusive as possible, and also knowing I’m going to miss some pieces, and hopefully that people will let me learn from that, too.

Elizabeth DiAlto  12:06

And then, you know, also, you know, I mentioned earlier, obviously, being a person of color, that’s just one form of diversity. That’s just one area where we need to be inclusive. So you said something about fatphobia? Were there any other areas that you were like, Oh, it was kind of just, yes. Unconscious bias? Yes. Where you don’t realize it until so. Yeah. And then you’re like, Oh,

Jadah Sellner  12:27

yes. So privilege. So I grew up, like I’ve been homeless before, like with my family, and like living in a motor home and the Salvation Army, getting free clothes from people that people donate. Like, that’s been my experience. And I’ve also experienced a lot of wealth and my family too. And my in laws, and my parents like being able to stay with them. When things were hard. Like that’s one of my stories of like, hashtag worst case scenario, I had to live with my in laws, like closed down my first business, and calling out that that is a privilege that not everyone even has access to family to go live with. Being able to acknowledge that or I got to intern with my husband’s aunt, to learn about online business, that’s to have access to that type of business acumen. Like those type of things where I’m like, things were hard, I had to live with my in laws, I didn’t have gas in my car to get to work and juggling, childcare, and all these things where I’m like, things were hard for me. And it’s like, for someone to call me out and say, just acknowledge those pieces of privilege that you’re not even aware of that you had, because it was like that was my rock bottom. But someone else doesn’t even have those tools, those people resources to lean on in times of scarcity, lack of money, opportunities. And so it allowed me to tune in, I had been BETA readers had 16, people also read my book, who half were like startup like just like thinking of ideas, just building their business. And then half were seasoned entrepreneurs who had been at it for many, many years, that was synchronistic to the even just for it to be a 5050 split. But it was helpful to hear about like, hey, all these stories, some of them seem like, oh, this was tied up in a bow and like, it’s like good at the end. And it’s like, I want to see people still falling apart or haven’t quite gotten to the end. And also those stories are true. So not to negate my truth or the truth of some of my clients and friends that I share in there. But to acknowledge what someone might be experiencing while they’re reading it, like just to name it. Like I know that some of these stories might seem like it’s tied up in a bow but here’s what entrepreneurship really looks like. It’s messy. Sometimes you’re not able to hit payroll and pay your team and you don’t pay yourself like just to be able to start to name some of those things for things that where people will have objections. as they read, yeah, and then to now and not continue to read. So it’s like where can we just be aware of where someone might start to face a little bit of resistance and just name like, I hear you, I see you, I get it. And sometimes you might just have to like, go back to work, like, you might not be able to build your business right now. Because your financial needs and security are the most important thing to take care of your well being and your family. So just being able to name some of those pieces versus this, like anyone can do it.

Elizabeth DiAlto  15:33

You know, I did so many Akashic Records readings from like, 2019 to 2021. And the amount of times that people were coming with shame around not building a business fast enough, or their perception of what was failure, because they’d like made a couple offers and things that I’m like, Y’all, this isn’t a forever thing. Like, you’re never going to stop failing. Like, there’s no one out there. I don’t care how anyone makes it look on Instagram, who like hits it out of the park every time. And then what happens sometimes is you’re like, rockin it, and something happens. And you’re like, Oh, but I don’t want to do that anymore. Yeah, that cut, like, there’s just so many bumps and ups and downs and things like that. It’s so not a linear journey. But the way people will shame themselves. And the guidance that will come for them would be like, it’s just part of the process. And for some people, the guidance would be like, you’re not really built for this. Yeah. Like, what do you feel better? If you kind of did this on the side? So you still did it? But like, had something stable happening? And the number of people that were just like, Oh, my God, yes, thank God, you know, it’s not for everyone. But you know, this industry gets where they love to act like it’s a superior path.

Jadah Sellner  16:56

Yeah. And it’s really not any not. Yeah, it does. It takes a lot of work and being comfortable with uncertainty and highs and lows and how that can wreak havoc on your nervous system. Like for me, one of my wounds is safety. So it’s interesting that I’m even in this game of entrepreneurship, because it’s like, I’m like, oh actually crave security and stability. But I create these anchors in my life to create that in some areas, so that I can deal with uncertainty in something like a business or a book where it just feels very unknown and amorphous, and in the process, and the creation and the building of it. Yeah, I was having

Elizabeth DiAlto  17:37

I forget who I was talking to the other day, but someone was saying, oh, actually a client of mine who is an entrepreneur and recently had a job offer that she was considering. And then she was like, Yeah, but like jobs aren’t stable either. I think that’s something people don’t talk about often enough, either, right? Yeah. So much can’t guarantee who your co workers gonna be. I have another client who had this great boss for many years, and then that person left and the new boss is a nightmare, though, right, right. Like the uncertainty, the instability, it’s not just about money. Yes. And speaking of which, that’s a good segue, because this is one of your big things. It’s not just about money.

Jadah Sellner  18:13

Yeah. So I know I talk a lot about love over metrics of being able to lead with putting yourself first putting people first before the numbers and also with business numbers matter in some sense, if you want a sustainable, like some cash flow is gotta be happening in order to sustain your livelihood. But for many of us who are creatives and like oriented in that way, are very service driven healers, that the driver to show up and serve in this way is not about the money. It’s about a feeling and being able to contribute with gifts that you have access to. But it’s very confusing when the dominant workplace culture proneural Hustle culture is saying like money is the thing to measure your worthiness, your success, your viability, it’s very harming for people who aren’t motivated by that that actually can sometimes demotivate them. So that’s why I always like to say like, in chapter two of the book, I talked about defining your enough number. Yes, what is enough for you? We’ll do the math of like, what does it costs for you to live? Yeah, really. And then if you want to, like add another level, what’s like, Your abundant level to living, you know, and like, and knowing those numbers, it takes off the pressure. So when you do hit that number, you’re not constantly moving the goalposts a little bit further, right? It’s like 50k Now 100k Now multiple, six figures now. And interesting. It’s like people jump from I want to make $200,000 a year so it’s like multiple six figures. And now Do you want to lead to seven figures? And then it’s like, that’s such a big leap. There’s so many mindset shifts around team support and up, I have clients who have grown and scaled their teams. And then they’re like, for what? I don’t even want to manage other people. And that’s not but some people love it. Like, yeah, I love team building love culture, building love having that, to me, entrepreneurship is really about self awareness, like what works for you. And people scale back where they’re like, I did it, I grew the big team, I grew the big top line revenue, and I’m depleted, I’m exhausted, I don’t enjoy what I do anymore. And so they’ll release their entire team and or they’ll cut it in half. Yeah, go back to numbers from the past, when there was more joy in their life, there’s more joy in their work. So it’s not always about scale. But we do that because we’re chasing this external metric. So like seven figures still means you’re probably making $200,000 in your pocket still. And

Elizabeth DiAlto  21:05

I was having a conversation with my buddy ouzo about this the other day, he recently relocated, he’s living in Spain, he used to live in London. And part of it was like, I couldn’t pay out like a third less in life expenses here. And that takes so much pressure off other things. And he’s a creative as well. And you know, I know you and I, like we would go on these walks, you’re always one of my favorite people to talk to about business, because we have that we share that we are just not the money driven people. Like, I am not a seven figure entrepreneur, and I don’t give a fuck if I ever become one. But over the years, and you’ve been in these groups with me where I would like, let people talk me into it, I would like gaslight myself like, well, if I’m being of service, I should make no pitch. Like, that’s just never gonna be the thing that gets me. But me and who, though, and I’d love to hear your opinion on this, especially because like you work with so many different types of businesses. And I love that about you, too, because your work isn’t just coaches, coaching coaches, coaching coaches, like Yeah, actually, I’m

Jadah Sellner  22:06

probably like the worst coach for coaches. So I don’t, it’s like if someone like, oh, I want to do what you do, that’s harder for me, because that’s not my magic. It’s like, I want to amplify whatever it is that you are great and amazing at and doubling down on that. So that’s why it’s like brick and mortar businesses, people in art and creativity, agency based businesses, food blockers, like I just Yeah, and everyone makes their money differently. But there’s such a through line on what everyone’s dealing with, like truly struggling with is isn’t about the marketing mechanism, or how to reach more people like it’s really time, and energy management.

Elizabeth DiAlto  22:46

So all of that. And also, the thing that was in I was talking about was how ridiculous it is that for so many people, the baseline goal is making seven figures. Because it’s you also make a good point, which is like cool if just because your business is grossing seven figures doesn’t mean that you’re like banking a million dollars a year, like what is it costing people to get that to hit that seven figure revenue mark, and you and I’ve been in groups with people who had essentially built businesses that were like prisons or cages for themselves, spending hundreds of $1,000 to make the millions but not taking, like, and then just the stress on the team and all the stuff you were mentioning. So I would like to do glorify that here with you. But then also just like for real, again, to just talk about, I don’t know what the annual average salary is in the US right now, do you?

Jadah Sellner  23:42

That’s a good question.

Elizabeth DiAlto  23:43

I remember many years ago, it was like $19,000, or something like maybe it’s in like the 20s or 30s. Gotta look it up. But some people feel like, it should be normal to make a million dollars. It’s just, I can’t stop laughing about that ever. Like, it’s so insane. Why do people

Jadah Sellner  24:03

and I just do ourselves. And it’s not to say that if someone has that goal, or or vision and has the capacity and the excitement, then go for it. Like if you have the stamina and the momentum and you are in your joy on your way to that, then I want that because when

Elizabeth DiAlto  24:23

I see your health and your life and your family, yes.

Jadah Sellner  24:26

And so it’s really getting clear on what your priorities and your values are in that season of your life. So I’m not knocking the metrics or the goals if that’s what drives you. But for the most people that I work with, it’s like they just want flexibility in their time so they can go volunteer in their kids Co Op and preschool classroom. They want time to be able to travel and take vacations with their family. But most of these people love their work. They love what they do, but they don’t want to burn out and be exhausted from it where then then they don’t like their work and then their work becomes a place that doesn’t feel good anymore.

Elizabeth DiAlto  25:03

And you want to have a life dammit. We live a life outside people. I love my work. You love your work. I’m happy to spend a lot of time on my work. But this is why Salsa dance, does things like have sacred sled experiments like I got to live a life to Yes, yes. Yeah, he had other things. So what tagline did you go with? You go with anti hustle? Did you put that anywhere?

Jadah Sellner  25:27

Oh, yeah, we were in our peer mastermind in the Bay Area. So yeah, it’s the anti hustle guide to grow your business and nourish your life, she believes is the title.

Elizabeth DiAlto  25:37

So for people who are like real attached to the hustle to grinding, who really identify with that, that’s where they get their worth in their value. What is anti hustle all about? Yeah,

Jadah Sellner  25:48

I mean, it’s really detoxing from hustle culture. And really getting caught up in the productivity of how many hours you’re working spending in a day, week, month, and really taking the 6080 hour work week off the pedestal of like, that’s what makes something successful. And I had to detox in my own way of thinking like, Oh, I’m not a real entrepreneur. And I think that’s a lot of like, what women, non binary folks, people who have been socialized as female, have experienced thinking like, oh, the way that I do business, or the way that I think about serving is wrong. If I look at the dominant hustle culture of like, what’s being put on a pedestal as like, this is success. And so we have to give ourselves permission. Like we don’t have to move as fast. We don’t have to celebrate like speed and acceleration. So for me, I’m just like, give yourself permission to be a slow cooker. Like, guys, hen stemmer. Things take time, especially acknowledging what season of life you’re in. Like if you’re caregiving for kids, if you’re caregiving for elders, if you’re caregiving for yourself, and you have a chronic illness, like any of that takes time, it takes resources, it takes money, it takes energy. And then we want to like build a unicorn business empire million dollar exit IPO act like we’re comparing ourselves like to the wrong definition of success. And it’s like, business can look and feel different. Yeah, I’m laughing as

Elizabeth DiAlto  27:29

you’re talking because I’m just remembering this amazing medium article I saw a couple of years ago, that was called Gary Vee is trying to kill you.

Jadah Sellner  27:38

Oh, that’s great. That’s great.

Elizabeth DiAlto  27:40

If anyone doesn’t know who Gary Vee is, he is like the poster child for hustle culture. He’s like, you’ll sleep when you’re dead, like that kind of energy. And you’re just like, damn, yo, and you know, what’s also so fascinating. I don’t know if you cover this at all in the book. But this piece, you know, so I wrote in my context, I’m often seeing things that are coming up related posts for me on like social media and stuff. Are these like, Goddess II kind of women who are like, get into the forest like sunbather your Yoni like whatever. But you know, some of these women have sugar daddies, or just partners, or trust funds or money from corporate jobs that they weren’t like. It’s just like, Listen, if you’re gonna back in people to like, work less, you also maybe be a little transparent about how is it that you are able to work less? Yeah, I love that, like what you do. It’s also very practical. Yeah,

Jadah Sellner  28:38

there’s an integration, right? Even with you. Like I always say, like, I’m new to woo like, I’m not all the way woo in the crystals and the tarot decks and like, I love to play, and, uh, not all the way and like structure and systems, but it’s to me, it’s a full integration of the masculine and the feminine energy. So even in this book, there’s a lot of compassion, and a lot of like, slow it down. But there’s also a lot of practical business strategies. These are like the worksheets, the questions, the prompts, all the things that I’m sharing with my clients, whether they’re just starting a business, or they’re running a $5 million a year business, the SEC, like gets all the same truly like, so I the everything that I share with my clients is in this book, and because I wanted the practical, like if your brain is oriented in that way that needs to take action needs to make a decision needs to whatever that is that you have those practical tools and steps but I’m also having the flow and the deep care and love like weaved and so it’s it’s an integration of very like holistic lens of not all the way Whoo. Or all the way in this leg tense like kill it, crush it. There’s like a beautiful dance of kind of swinging from the pendulum in both of those places.

Elizabeth DiAlto  29:57

Because you kind of alluded to this earlier but there’s seasons for everything, you know, like, sometimes I’m like, I’m gonna work season like, I feel like Koszalin Yeah, like grind a little bit and I have the energy for it. So I’m going to do that. You know, and there are times when I’m like, nope, how can I do as little as humanly possible? Yes, yes, pay my bills and not put anyone, my team or whatever, in harm’s way, because it just can’t go at the same speed season. Yeah, nothing works that way. But people really try to force themselves.

Jadah Sellner  30:28

Yeah, and I talk about that, like, you know, embrace your pace of there are seasons when we are in push mode, or seasons when we need to pause. And then there’s also seasons when we need to pivot. And so being able to identify what you need to do in every season of your life, because just because I’m saying anti hustle does not mean anti effort does not mean anti hard work, writing this book, there were some days where I was editing in my office for 10 hours, but I was having so much fun, I was having solo dance parties, I was drinking my green juice, I would be co working with a friend. Or I’d go off and stay in a hotel for three to four nights to write and like, have a little love affair with my book. And that push or that extra effort felt joyful, also felt challenging. So I was growing in the process. And then there’s some seasons like in 2019, when it’s like experiencing so much grief and loss. And I was inspired by you, like pause the podcast, stop doing this, ask for help have someone else come into my coaching program and show up so that I can have space to heal and to grieve. And that’s like something that I say is I’m not hiding, I’m healing, and be able to remind ourselves that taking a step back, whether it’s social media, or a podcast or whatever that is, like if you are honoring, like what your true needs are in the moment. Yeah. And it may mean that you do sacrifice profit, it may mean you may have to borrow money or get a loan or credit card, whatever, you know, if you have those access to those type of resources, there are seasons when we are contracting, and that is healthy. And okay. And there are seasons when we are expanding. Yeah. Okay.

Elizabeth DiAlto  32:21

I love it so much hiding that healing, because So this morning, I was cracking up, my friends shared a meme. That was a picture of like, something on fire in the background. And it said, like the world right now. And then there was Will Ferrell yelling, and it said, coaches, but Are you rich yet? You know, I, and that led me, the person who posted that as this whole meme account, you know, like a popular thing to do these days is to be a former coach, who now just talks shit about coaches and like points out everything that’s wrong with it. And I went to this woman’s page. And listen, she had some funny ass posts. Some of it was a bit much. But a lot of things she was speaking into, Are these like common things like coaches will throw at people like, well, this is a mindset issue. You’re in, like, you’re in scarcity. And this thing hiding. That’s a thing. Yeah, coaches will be like, you need to do visibility. I have a friend who did like this whole visibility challenge. And I’m like, in a coaching program, she was in with someone. And I was like, and she actually didn’t need that. Like, that was really cool. Yeah, but I’m like, It’s not about visibility for everyone. You know what I mean? Like, it’s just, people have different things. And when you are in a season of healing, you seed space, you don’t need to be like, you’re like a raw nerve ending, because you’re grieving and healing and processing shit. You don’t need to be showing up on like, IG lives every day. And like making real life. We’re seeing yourself to be seen. Because someone told you that if you don’t want to be seen you have visibility. It’s just like no bitch, I just don’t feel like it. Right now.


Yes. And also it for me I identify as being like a highly sensitive person. And so social media and all of that energy of the different people like having being an empath, like it’s a flurry to your nervous system to take all that and to track it. And so you need that space. And we also need more models being online is not the only way to build a successful business. And sometimes what works even more in this season is one on one conversations personal outreach or an I just love this like throwback to like being able to speak on stages or to be in rooms with community of small groups of people again, like it doesn’t all have to be this like, one to many microphone. That’s our what’s the what’s the thing you know, and you’re like a cheerleader and This

Elizabeth DiAlto  35:00

megaphone megaphone, right? I just spoke. I know you’re not really on social media, I do megaphone video sometimes. Oh, funny because I’m obviously already so loud. Like, if anyone doesn’t need a megaphone, it’s me. So when I’m yelling into one, it’s like, I think it’s ended. Meaning a lot of people love it. Some people are like, Bitch Put that thing away.

Jadah Sellner  35:20

And there’s also a beautiful dance. My friend Nikki Elledge, Brown was like, I want to show up on social media a little bit, one to many, to then start one to one conversations. So it’s like, I want to actually have the intimate, deeper conversations. But if I just make a peep out there, that’s going to get me to that end result in some way.

Elizabeth DiAlto  35:43

Yeah, I love that. Everything is like it’s one recipe imbalanced depending on who you are. And I think that’s obviously a lot of what you talk about and what you teach. Yes,

Jadah Sellner  35:52

yeah. And I think that’s what we have to pay attention to working with coaches as well. And that’s what I would learn, you know, joining mastermind programs, group coaching, and like, this mentor coach doesn’t get me like, that’s not part of their process, is to understand my heart, what I care about what matters to me, like outside of business. And so that’s why usually, I’m working with someone who has a more integrated coach or a personal life coach or therapist, and then I will mastermind with my peers and my best friends, because they know me, like there’s something really beautiful about someone knowing you very deeply and tracking you for many years, like I’ve had coaches and coaches for many, many years that I can bounce in and out. Yeah, and many of my clients I’ve worked with, with like four to six years. And there’s just something so easy, because I’m tracking like such a long history of growth and change and what matters to them and thinking about their whole life, not just like this compartmentalized part of their life, which is just work or business

Elizabeth DiAlto  37:01

totally. But you know, what I love about this, there is, again, people who don’t want to look at things in their intricate, nuanced details, make these big, sweeping generalizations because again, it’s like trendy now to like shit on the coaching industry. But I had a client just a couple weeks ago, make a post. I met her in 2019. So we’re going on four years now. And she’s been struggling with a lot of stuff, chronic illness and relationship stuff. She made a big intercontinental move. And just now she hit a place where she was like, I am on the other side of five fucking grueling, excruciating years of healing work. Yeah. And she was beautiful. She was thanking me and part of this post for like, all the work that we’ve done together. But that’s it, right? Because every time she would show up, I’d be like, I get it. This still sucks. I just know. It cannot suck forever. That’s just how anything works. And she was saying, like, it was so hard so many times to keep going. But we knew this day would come. Yeah. And that is cool, right? Like people who bounce around. And here’s why I brought up talking about the coaching industry again, because one of the big things is like, we don’t need gurus, and how people define a guru, but it’s like, working with someone long term doesn’t mean they’re your guru. It just means like, they’re a reliable resource in your quarter. And like you’re saying, like, that longevity, that depth that like, knowing your pattern, like seeing you reminding you like, this is how we’re detorri down self sabotage stream, you

Jadah Sellner  38:40

know, when someone knows you, they can say that and you’re like, Oh, damn, you’re right. Yeah, even reminding you of your process of how you get to decisions of how you get to clarity that this is actually part of your process is verbally processing. And then it’s to go have a hard conversation with someone on your team. And then it’s to make a powerful request. And then it’s to create this like documented system, or whatever it is, or hire the person. There’s like, there’s a way that we get to a finished product, a decision solving a problem, like we all have unique ways of doing that. But someone could feel guilty or a little Shamy of like, Oh, why am I reaching out? Or why am I just venting? And it’s like, nope, like I do inside out processing. So it’s like I’m processing within and then I start reaching out and connecting with my friends coaches asking so that I’m gathering I’ve already processed within, but now I need to get it out of my brain swirling around and then I will process with friends here, thoughts, insights, and then I’m taking all of that back end digesting it, putting it through my own internal filter and then getting that’s what works for me, but to be like, Oh, I’m always out. Am I outsourcing my decisions to other people? No, I’m just getting like, reflection mirror back. And then what is true for me in this moment, this season will end something we have in common. We’re manifest Seeing generators,

Elizabeth DiAlto  40:02

we respond. We’re generator types and human design for anyone who’s not familiar with human design. We need to respond to things. Just sitting around ruminating ourselves, we can really over process shit. Yeah, I love how you said that. Right? And that won’t work for everybody. But I really relate like you get your internal clarity and then you’re like, Alright, let me bounce some shit off the people. So I can really anchor into what’s real here and what still might need some refinement. Oh my god, I love geeking out about business shit with you? Can I share a realization around that I have a few recently. And I have a question wrapped up in this too. I curious during the pandemic, because so many businesses went remote. The market for virtual assistants and like tech help has become different than if it’s a little more challenging. And also a lot of people decided to quit their jobs and become that. So I’m noticing two things, the higher still people were like, Oh snap, I can go get a better paying job for like a bigger company or like a larger startup or whatever, make more money for doing the same thing I was doing before. And so they’re now priced out for like small businesses, like us, for example. And then also noticing there’s a lot of new people who really don’t have a lot of skill or experience. But someone’s telling them charge your worth. And you’re like, Arjun prices that you’re like, you still need training and experience like this is obscene. Yeah. So there’s that piece of it. But then also, I learned something about myself. Again, I talked about my buddy, who’s all the time, I got to have him on the podcast at some point. But he was writing me this was just yesterday to my standards are just higher than a lot of people’s. And I need to apologize for that either. Right? I got twice this year, I’ve got recommendations for people on my team from friends, who were like, oh, yeah, I love them. And then within a month, I was like this, I can’t work with this person yet. But people always say like, word of mouth referrals are the best. And I’m like, Yeah, but I don’t always know how my friends were.

Jadah Sellner  42:08

Yeah, just an example. So I have a list called shows to watch. It’s like, hundreds of recommendations. So I put who recommended that show. And so when I watched the show, and if I didn’t love it, I will no like most of their like, if I get like a few misses, but that same referral, then it’s like, I’m not going to take theirs. But then if there’s certain people I’m like, the mix of recommendations have been on point, because referral word of mouth, right? There’s discernment that we have to make. There’s also leadership styles are unique and different. Being able to pay attention to the referrals that you get, or do you keep going back to the same source pool, and they loved it, and you’re like, Nope, didn’t like that, but didn’t like that, like, then their leadership workstyle probably doesn’t mesh with the type of people that work for you. And so just kind of paying attention to that. And if there’s ever been a referral where it was a win, it was amazing. Like, okay, let me tap back into that one more frequently, or people like that, I think is really important. Also, a part of onboarding team and like creating systems is a lot about preferences, like SOPs, and all of those things. And that’s the same thing in dating and relationships. It’s like, sometimes I don’t know what I want, or what I don’t want until it’s presented to me. And now I do. So that’s something that I like to share with people when their onboarding is Be transparent that like, this system, or I actually haven’t worked with a virtual assistant before, I haven’t had a social media manager, I’m still learning to, we’re learning together, I want you to be empowered to make some decisions. And when they come back to me, some of them I actually might not like, but I didn’t know that I wasn’t going to like it until you sent it to me. Yeah,

Elizabeth DiAlto  44:01

I say this all the time, by the way that hiring is like, it’s just like dating. It’s like dating in so many ways. And this is such a good point. And I want to reiterate it for anyone listening, the fact that we often don’t know, or can sometimes not know until something’s presented to us, because we’ve never experienced it before. How could we know? Yeah. And when we’re too busy listening to theories, and taking other people’s advice without trying shit out for ourselves. That’s where we can waste a lot of time, effort, energy, attention and money.

Jadah Sellner  44:31

Yeah. And I think also, it’s important for us that part of entrepreneurship is testing and experimentation. So you might spend all this time and investing in team growing scaling and kind of coming back to like the beginning of our conversation of and you realize, oh, I don’t want to leap to eat. Right? So and then you can feel bad, like have this guilt or the shame of like, oh man who spent all that time but now you’re clear and you don’t have to have have this big expensive team on a pedestal. It’s like when George and I have been married for 17 years, we got married on Maui. And when we went there on our honeymoon, we’re like, oh, I want to live in Hawaii. It’d be so amazing just to have like, like a chicken skewer stand like a beach hut something. And then we live in kawaii for a couple of years, a few years later. And it wasn’t the dream. Like we loved it while we were there. But we are creatives we love like being where there is life theater live concerts. Like that’s where we get our most inspiration from. But if we didn’t go there and live there for a few years, but I would have always been dreaming and admiring and like wouldn’t it be great to live in Hawaii like a like what we have here? And so our appreciation for living in California is just so deep. The tax all like all the things we understand the trade off that we’re making living out here because we’ve allowed ourselves to live somewhere else.

Elizabeth DiAlto  46:00

Yeah, I love that. Did you choose Alexandra Franzen’s course about not being on social media? I feel like you’re the person I did.

Jadah Sellner  46:06

Tell me about it. I did like her first round of it.

Elizabeth DiAlto  46:10

So I was looking this up the other week, because I you know, you know me, I love social media, and I’m built for it. And I’m never gonna, like leave Instagram. But am I gonna go scale back? Sometimes, you know, like, one of the things I did this year, I had hired some marketing people. And per usual, anytime I ever hire like a strategist, they always have me out here doing more than I actually need to do. And I’m like, Can I finally get this lesson? Like, oh, fuck, you need this? Like he just did. I’m doing way too much. So I was looking at Alexander friends. And we you tell them, we tell them about that. And also, again, I just I love how you do this, like you do perfectly well, barely being on social media.

Jadah Sellner  46:56

It’s true. Yeah. So I took Alex’s course. And it was really cool the way that she had it set up because it was live. If you want to see someone, the way someone does something differently, it’s like zoom. There’s no live q&a, where you get to speak and take up space. You know, it’s like you’re in the chat box, she’s like, has so much structure, it’s so clean and tight her containers, but really building out this list of ways to love up on people. It’s a very intimate referral base. And that’s something a lot of times, especially for women, that they will discredit their marketing skills, like, Oh, I just get a bunch of referrals. And like, don’t count that as marketing, or count that as revenue generating activity when it’s like delivering an amazing service that people keep referring you. So for me, I’m like, How can we double down on that? How can we make more people make it easier for people to do that. So I even have like in my desk right now, she mailed us like stamps and note cards like things just to check in on people not when you need something or need to fill something just to nurture relationships. So it’s not to say that you won’t spend time on marketing. It’s just saying there are other ways than using social media. Because social media, just think of like, that’s a love letter one to many. And not all of those people, they’re just entertained, inspired by you’re not going to become a client. Or you can do that on a smaller scale. Or just like I’m going to send a love note to one person versus one to many on social media and this like consistent hamster wheel of content creation, I just believe more and like depth and quality over quantity. Yeah. But I have a friend who has 1.5 million followers on Instagram, over 4 million followers on Tiktok. And she loves like it’s a full time job to be posting on social media. And she’s got a seven figure high seven figure earning business. But she knows that that’s her job. Like she’s not coaching, she’s not creating courses, she’s not selling her job is to create entertaining content. And then she gets paid for that through the platforms that she’s using. Our sponsored ads are things but the thing that’s confusing is we see these people who are doing well on social media platforms. And we’re like, I mean, it’s just a 10 second video, but it’s like those 10 second videos are well thought out and could take three for eight hours just to produce one piece of content and so you better like creating content. Does that make sense? Like and I think you are a content creator like you like to create content, but not everybody does. I don’t consider myself a content creator. Like I feel for me I’m more of like connector energy. So relationship building, being at events, even like audio messages and social media DM like those type of things of like is like that relational, very intimate, because I like small groups, I don’t want to be at a party.

Elizabeth DiAlto  50:10

It’s so interesting. I got a message this and this point is so important. People don’t realize how transparent their behavior is getting a message from a call this person, an acquaintance, I’ve known them for many years. But I did some work with her. She does find out stuff. I did some work with her in the beginning of the year. And it’s like, every time she reaches out, she’s essentially like, Hey, how are you? I miss you what’s going on, but then telling me about something that she’s doing, which would require me to pay her money. Not realize like that. This is the only time you reach out to me like, I invite you to like a party. And then I get a message from you. That’s like, Hey, we should do a box. Also, I’m doing this. I’m like, oh, like, it feels so yucky.


Yeah, there’s an art, I think to that. And it’s to serve first like to add value give value. And for me, because I’ve invested in people in that way, where I’m just like, they’re like, how are you? I’m doing this. I’m like, how are you? And then I’m like, Wait, what are you doing? Tell me more like, it’s just like to be so interesting. Or like you’re working on something that I’m like, I signed me up, you’ve got to let the interest and the intrigue happen first before, like putting the invitation and the offer out. Let them ask you to go on the dance floor.

Elizabeth DiAlto  51:33

What have I not asked you about the book that you want to geek out about? With the book.

Jadah Sellner  51:38

I think one thing that I’ve learned from the creative writing process of it all something that I want to share more, which I think is kind of an illustration of hustle culture, is how when I first started working, writing on the book, I tried to do what like say Steven Pressfield says, like I remember, put your ass where your heart is or what your heart wants to be, you know, like you got to write every single day you got to sit on, you know, at your desk and type away. And I did that for four months. And I was getting no traction with the book that was not working for me. But I wanted to take on the identity of author. And then I was getting more inspired by like Cheryl Strayed, which is like I go into a cabin, like I have kids at home. There’s just like too many things, too many responsibilities. And so making that shift to start, like immersively, creating and writing the book for three to four days at a time and basically ignoring my family and going away from my home responsibilities. Yeah, I did several of those hotel getaways in a very short amount of time. And I enjoyed the process. Everything was like opening up deepening. And so honoring that my creative output. And the way that I write is very immersive. And it’s very concentrated. And it’s very short. And so that could feel like a push that could feel like hustle. But it just to me it feels deep and expansive. And so sharing that example of how are we thinking that to be like a right type of author, we have to be doing something every single day consistency, same time, at 250 words a day, like all of these metrics, and restrictions to create that we have to learn what is our way to get the best out of us like what environment, people physical space, what are those things that we need that make us come alive and feel super inspired to get to the work that’s in front of us?

Elizabeth DiAlto  53:36

I was chatting with a friend the other day, her first book came out last year, the year before I can’t remember. And she then signed a two book deal. So she’s working on her second one. There’ll be one other one after. And she was like, I didn’t realize that there are just like people who will help you like write and structure your book. It’s not even like a ghostwriter. But she’s, she’s like I felt weird about that. Because I’m like, well, I need to write my own book. But it’s like, yeah, but some people need to have the book like coaxed out of them. Like I’m a better speaker. I love writing and I’m a pretty good writer, but I need to talk shit. Right? Yeah. One of the things I do a lot is after I record something, I’ll get it transcribed and I’ll be like, yep, chapters of something. Yeah,

Jadah Sellner  54:20

I mean, I pulled transcriptions from talks and things to kind of like what’s here? Is there anything here that I’ve already said in a very clear, concise way that my writing brain can’t get behind it right now? I’ve done a keynote on this.

Elizabeth DiAlto  54:34

Yeah, I went to transformational speaker training recently. And I never usually I never usually practice but the night before the last day, which is where we were doing like our signature talk. I recorded it actually recorded it twice and then listen to myself. And I was like, Oh, I like this I don’t like that that story is not necessary. I was feeling is actually reminded me of Stand Up Comedy like what a comics do. They test their Newman’s Aereo right, like, before someone records that Netflix special, they have gone on a tour. They have tested that audience and watch that film and saw if they said this word this way, the more people laugh when it was it’s silent. What was crickets like? Cuz you know, we get attached to shit sometimes. And I mean, yes, it works or it doesn’t. What do you want? Like, you want to be picky about what you like? Or do you want the shit that works for the people you’re trying to be there for? Yes, I love that you always share the creative process too. So the book is she builds. So if this is coming out on November 28, where’s that your timeline? Is it out?

Jadah Sellner  55:37

Reorder? No, November 15? Is her birthday? Yes. So she will be out. And if you go to she all of the details are there. If you’re an audible listener, like I am, I did record an audio book. And so if you go to she That will take you right over there. There’s lots of bonus goodies and things to get access to. And if you’re like, I don’t know if I’m so into this, there’ll be a free chapter of the book too, to kind of just get your get your love

Elizabeth DiAlto  56:08

that. I need to try things sometimes I’m like, let me see this verse. That’s what I’ve learned. That’s one way I’ve been curbing my book buying issue.

Jadah Sellner  56:18

I have to show I don’t know if you’ve seen the cover or not, but like here she is. I know people won’t be able to see it. Love it, but I’m just in love with the gold foil and the deep. Just the color is very sensual, sexy, and I’m celebrating that Harper business was willing to have a business book that has a gold foil heart on it. It’s

Elizabeth DiAlto  56:44

amazing. Bring in that verse mama energy that you take everywhere you go whether you realize it or not. Yeah, not artists flair. Amazing. Well, people listening whether you’re an entrepreneur or not, maybe you know an entrepreneur. Share this up. This was episode number 409. So if you want links to everything that we talked about here, just go to untamed, forward slash 409 And you’ll be able to see it and get it all over there. Thank you so much for being here. Again. I’m very excited for you. Congratulations on crossing the finish line almost. At the time I’m recording it. It’s not but at the time you all are listening in the finish line has been crossed and now it’s just time to share.


Yes, yes. Yes. Thank you, Elizabeth. I love you to pieces. See you later.