Have you ever wondered if your dreams were trying to tell you something?
Many of us have a complicated relationship with our dreams. We may view them as nonsensical, unimportant, or even scary. We may also wonder if our subconscious mind is trying to send us a message.
Do our dreams warn us of the future or simply rehash the various emotions of our day? Or are they just random firings of an overactive brain? Do the people, colors, and sensations that we experience while dreaming actually mean anything?
Today I am joined by my long-time friend Heather Lindemenn, who has spent years working with dreams as the primary vehicle for growth and healing.
Heather’s studies and experience have taught her that dreams are the voice of our inner world. When we understand the language of our dreams, we can uncover and reconnect with the wisdom of our souls.
In today’s episode, Heather walks us through ways to approach, remember, and interpret our dreams.
With a simple daily ritual, it is possible to begin to recall our dreams so that we can uncover their truths. We talk about different types of dreams, how they each have a purpose, and why the words we use to describe our dreams matter.
Join me in today’s episode to begin your journey toward a deeper understanding of your inner world.
What insight and guidance are hidden within you waiting to be discovered?
Listen to episode 359 now!
In episode 359 of the Embodied Podcast we discuss:
- [9:42] Why some people have an easier time remembering their dreams and how to can get better at recalling them
- [16:54] A simple ritual that can help you remember your dreams so you can better interpret them
- [20:06] Common mistakes we make with our dreams that keep us from learning from them
- [25:20] Tips for what to details to pay attention to when trying to write down a dream
- [36:10] The different types of dreams that people can experience and how to approach them for interpretation
- [41:39] Why Heather does not recommend using dream catalogues that explain dream symbology
- [50:37] The significance of recurring dreams and recurring themes and how they are different
- [1:01:52] What to expect in Heather’s Dream Speak course for those who want to learn more about working with dreams
- [1:04:55] What to expect in Heather’s Symbol Speak course for those just beginning their mystic journey with dream work
Resources mentioned by Heather and Elizabeth in the episode:
- Learn more about Heather and how she can help you on your mystic journey
- Follow Heather on Instagram
- Learn more about sacred soul work from one of Heather’s teachers
- Learn more about The Embodied Living Center
- Email us with questions or feedback.
- Don’t miss an episode of The Embodied Podcast.
Quotes from this Week’s Episode of the Embodied Podcast:
“Our soul is our most unconditionally loving aspect of ourselves because it’s inclusive of the many parts of ourselves.”
“Dreams, when they’re really prevalent and they’re coming rapid-fire, are trying to get your attention. Because your dreams can see something about you that your daytime mind cannot.”
“Dreams don’t lie, and if you do they’ll never reveal their wisdom, messages, and guidance.”
“The soul likes for things to be sacred. And in order for things to be sacred we have to sacrifice pretending. In order to get the most out of dream work we have to be willing to see ourselves clearly.”
“If you want to use dream work to really grow, work your dreams as if they are about you and for you.”
How was this episode for you?
Was this episode helpful for you today? I’d love to know what quote or lesson touched your soul. Let me know in the comments below OR share the episode on Instagram, tag me your stories @elizabethdialto, or send me a DM!
About the Embodied Podcast with Elizabeth DiAlto
Since 2013 I’ve been developing a body of work that helps women embody self-love, healing, and wholeness. We do this by focusing on the four levels of consciousness – physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual.
In practical terms, this looks like exploring tools and practices to help you tune into the deep wisdom of the body and the knowing of the heart, which I believe are gateways to our souls. Then we cultivate a new relationship with our minds that allows the mind to serve this wisdom and knowledge and soul connection, rather than override it, which is what many of us were taught.
If you’ve been doing self-help or spiritual development work for a while, these are the types of foundational things that often people overlook in pursuit of fancier concepts that often aren’t practical or sustainable. Here, we will focus on building these strong foundations so you can honestly and thoroughly embody self-love. If you’re feeling it, subscribe to the show, and leave us a review wherever you listen from. You can also keep up with show updates and community discussion on Instagram here.
Transcripts for Episode 359:
– Hello everybody, welcome to episode number 359 of the Embodied Podcast. Today we have one of my nearest and dearest Heather Lindemenn with us. I’ve been wanting to get Heather on the podcast for so many years. We knew it would work out eventually and I’m so pleased with the timing because Heather has recently put two amazing offerings out into the world. One of them is called Symbol Speak and the other one is called “Dream Speak”. Heather is my go-to person for dream analysis, for navigating the inner terrain, the interior world as she calls it, living the mystical life, she is just one of my favorite people to talk about these things with. Heather’s not really old enough to be considered an elder, but she is such an elder and getting to spend time with her, someone who’s a deep practitioner, someone who’s trained with so many people, who’s worked with so many people, it’s just such a rich conversation, it’s so deep, it’s so loving, it’s so nourishing, and it’s also so helpful and so actionable. So if you’re someone who has ever been curious about engaging and interacting with signs and symbols in your everyday life, and also working with your dreams, Heather has worked with dreams for many years as her primary vehicle for growth. So she walks us in this episode through so many different ways to approach in our dreams, interpret our dreams, journal our dreams, remember our dreams, it’s just so freaking good. I’m so excited to hear what you love about this episode. It’s episode number 359. So all the links to everything will be in the show notes at untameyourself.com/359. And without any further ado, please meet one of my favorite favorite, most cherished humans on the planet, Heather Lindemenn. Heather, finally.
– I wanna play that song that’s like, ♪ Finally it’s happened to me ♪ I’m not gonna sing. I always say to people, I don’t like singing ’cause it’s rude.
– I feel you exactly the same way.
– I’m not the worst, but we really don’t need that much of that in our lives.
– No, I have much better things to offer than my singing voice. My beauty right here.
– It’s a great way of putting it. My silence.
– Exactly. I’m so excited. We’ve been talking about this for a long time. Thank you, thank you.
– A long time.
– I’m so thrilled to be here.
– And I love of course these divinely times ’cause you have Symbol Speak is out now, your “Dream Class” course is out now. I’ve been wanting the people to get your medicine in more deliverable ways for the longest time. So we’re gonna get into all that. So my opening question now this season, this fall season on the Embodied Podcast is, how’s your heart today?
– Yeah. My heart is good. My heart feels good. My heart’s been stretched a lot too lately.
– Oh, that.
– Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it feels like it’s had a really good yoga class, my heart. A really good, nice stretch and it’s having its shavasana at the moment.
– Okay, we’re invested in integration in the heart space.
– Yes, yes, yes, absolutely. Hallelujah. I made it through that damn class.
– My God, it was a big class.
– It was a big class. How’s your heart.
– I’m a little tender today. Just like, everything is… You know me. By the way, people listening, Heather is literally one of my dearest, most cherished friends on the planet. It’s a bit like six and a half years now. So I actually wanna cry just like being here with you. I am tender today, I’m like 90% settled in my apartment. I’m just waiting just like some stuff, the little kitchen islands thing, table and chairs and bed frame but my mattress came yesterday.
– Oh yes.
– Listeners, I slept on an air mattress a little over a month which, okay, let’s acknowledge the privilege that I have a place to sleep and a roof over my head, yes, of course and also I’m a person whose back does not feel great sleeping on an air mattress. So my real mattress came yesterday, so I had a great sleep last night. I did the final like walkthrough I had to do. So like the details, I’m pretty much done with the details.
– And I could just be and live here now.
– Everything is set in its place.
– Yeah. So you know how when you go through something so big and multilayered and then it’s like done and you’re like, okay, but I’m not over it. It was so much. So my heart is tender, transitioning into like, okay, we can find some ground now.
– Yeah, yeah. Well when those it’s… I feel like what I see when you say that is like being on a boat for a while and you get used to that constant motion ’cause at first you’re like, holy, what is that? And I don’t know if I’ll ever get used to it and then it just sort of happens and then you get off the boat but you still are-
– Yeah, you’re on solid ground but you’re like still swaying.
– Yeah, that’s actually a perfect metaphor, I love it.
– I’m gonna do a glasses change. Are you okay with that?
– Yeah, I don’t care. A lot of people are listening, they don’t even know.
– Okay, good.
– But now they know now ’cause you told them.
– Now they Know. I just changed into exactly the same pair of glasses.
– What’s the difference.
– Very exciting. One of those loose and one of them is tighter.
– Got it.
– I really wanna toss into that’s what she said but I’m trying not to.
– I did too. I swear to God, I did too.
– Well, there you go
– I was trying to behave myself I when I saw-
– What makes you think you need to behave on my podcast?
– It’s dubious together.
– Well, now I know. I don’t have to. So, watch out.
– There was this meme. There was this meme that I said, Heather, everybody listening, that said it was something along the lines of “People can’t believe I’m like this on the internet.” And then it’s like people who know me, it’s worse than real life, it’s so much worse.
– I said to Heather, I was like, “This is us.”
– Oh yeah, oh yeah, not hiding.
– So we’re primarily gonna talk about symbols and dreams today which I’m really excited about. I think we’ve only talked about dreams one other time on the podcast with Martha Beck many years ago and I mean, she was a riot. I actually am not sure if that episode is still on the podcast, that might not have made it over when we updated everything last year. But that’s the only time we ever talked about dreams and she had a very specific modality. I love the way you work with symbols. So, and I mean, and it’s so rich. I love interviewing and taking people all over the place, but this feels like, it feels so vast. So here’s… Actually let me start with this ’cause I’ve seen you posting about this on Instagram for the last few days. I think some people listening might be like, “Yeah, cool. I’d love to work with my dreams, but I don’t remember them.” So let’s start with why do people remember or not remember their dreams? And is it possible to get better dream recall?
– Yes, ooh, I’m so excited we’re starting here. Dream recall is like a muscle, okay? So at most everyone dreams five to seven times a night. One of the reasons, one of the main reasons I feel that we don’t remember our dreams when we wake up in the morning is during the day, I call it the daytime mind, our daytime mind is in charge and the daytime mind is linear. It sees things rather literal. It also has a kind of a shallow, not in like a shitty way. It just sort of has a shallow capacity.
– It’s literal, linear and quite shallow and also daytime mind is in the future or in the past and it is not built to be in the present moment, or to experience the present moment, all right? So when we go to sleep at night, we cross a threshold. This is just my way of talking about it. I like it. It’s how I experience it that we close our eyes, there’s a descent into our interior, into our internal world, right? Even outside symbolically that we crossed that threshold too, right? It gets dark at night. There’s a descend. There’s a quieting. There’s this, we go into this place. So we cross the threshold from daytime mind into our interior, into the territory of the dream and the authority of that territory of our dream world is our soul, I feel as an idea, right? And I like that idea very much. And the daytime mind, because it’s so literal and so linear like a straight line, it doesn’t speak dream. So the language of the soul, I feel is symbolic all right? And so the soul will use, can use anything or rather anything can be symbolic to the soul. So a symbol, and I’m getting back to the remembering of the dreams. I swear, I’m not like-
– Please, take your time.
– off road. But a symbol is a person, place, thing, action, or phrase. Person, place, thing, action, or phrase, right? And our dream world uses the faces and the forms and the places of things, people, phrases that are familiar to us. It uses the material from our day-to-day life, our topside world to communicate with us. So at night, your dreams could like, you could be completely captivated by your dream. I don’t know if anybody’s ever felt this way but like, maybe you’ve woken up to use the restroom or something and you’re just in the midst of this epic drama and you can feel it all over your body, maybe your heart’s beating, your sweaty, or you feel excited, or you’re scared or whatever. Maybe you use the restroom and you come back to bed, sometimes, like if it’s a nightmare it’s kind of hard to shake off, right? But you can have this massive experience. And in the morning as we wake, we make an ascend. So we descended into the interior, gone inside the whole territory of the inner dream has got our attention. We’re on this giant journey and then we wake up. We wake up, okay? Even physically our bodies go down when we sleep. Symbolically, we’re going down, down, down, in, in, in, by, by, by here we go.
– In the morning, we wake up, up, up, come up, the sun comes up up, up. So we move into that linear daytime mind, which doesn’t speak dream. And one of the things I’m so aware of and I don’t know if you do this too is, and this is why we don’t remember our dreams is have you ever woken up? I know you have ’cause you and I talk about our dreams all the time. But I’m also asking your listeners. Have you ever woken up and you have this maybe a recollection of a dream and you call it something shitty? Like, you’re like, “What a weird dream?” Or sometimes I’ll call it a trashcan dream.
– Yeah, yeah me, I call it too taking out the trash.
– Taking out the trash, like we discount it, right? And so it’s kind of the same as say, you’re really needing guidance in your life and you’re really having a hard time and you’re just like, I need someone who can help me and then someone says, “Well, there’s this amazing healer that you can go meet, but they don’t speak English but if you spend time with them, you’ll start to understand what they have to say? But they fucking have the answer for you. Can I say the F word on your podcast?
– Of course.
– Okay, good. They have the answer for you and you go meet them and maybe they’ve got like the caftan on and some spiritual jewelry and a weird hat and I dunno, one shoe on and once you off and they just seem weird to you and you’re like, “Oh no, you’re weird. I don’t want your wisdom. I’m not gonna spend time with you. I’m not going to spend the time it takes to retrieve this wisdom that you have for me, right? And this guidance and this instruction you have for me. I’m just gonna discount you completely and move on.” And it’s the daytime mind that does that.
– Or the person has none of the accoutrement, right? And they just look like a normal fucking person and you go, “Well, you must not be spiritual enough.” I think about… I think you and I have talked about this too ’cause you and I have worked with, interacted with different types of healers and shamans and travels at different places. And I’ve certainly, I did a fire ceremony with a woman in Guatemala who I’m pretty sure was wearing pajama pants. Who cares?
– But these are the things like I’m hearing you. The daytime mind is going looking for reasons to discount the guidance, the good stuff.
– And so that’s one of the reasons why we don’t remember our dreams is that instantly if your daytime mind is so habituated, right? It’s so habituated to its way of seeing life, it’s linear focus, the second we wake up, boom, daytime mind is in. So the training, I think dream work is mystic training, period, right? So this training, if people are like, oh I wanna awaken my inner mystical, or I wanna live a more mystical life, right? That starts with just the intention to remember your dream. Just the intention. I also feel Elizabeth that the intention or the desire or the wanting to remember the dream, it’s a two way road. It’s like the thing that we want wants us too. It is sort of a call and response.
– We’re kind of answering the call from the inner dreamer and there is a very simple way to remember your dreams and I can share that if you want me to.
– I do want you to. Really quick though, actually, I’ll come back to it. I’m gonna write it down. Share that first.
– Okay. So super simple ritual to remember your dreams starts with the intention that you really are wanting that and you can converse with your interior dreamer. Like imagining that you have this wise elder inside of you, this wise ancient dreamer. And before you go to bed at night, you lay down a pad of paper and I like, either a pad of paper that can just open or a journal that has spirals that just lays open. You might note one of those journals, like this kind of a journal and I know that seems quite a hyper detailed but here’s the reason with a pin clicked on. So that ritual in and of itself is you’re saying to this interior ancient one I really wanna. I really wanna hear from you. And I will always ask for a clear, easy to remember, simple dream. Just clear. You know, I wanna hear what you have to say. And the commitment is, just like you and I when we were becoming friends, we would make a date and we would go meet for a smoothie or juice or we’d go meet and have a massage or whatever we were doing, right? And we would show up. So the commitment is to show up. And in the morning, whatever it is that you remember and I’ll address if you don’t, like even if it’s a feeling, a whisper, a hint of texture, you just write it down. Anything you remember. And if your daytime mind clicks right back in, this is the trick, you write down before you get out of bed, I remember. Just write down, I remember and see if something comes up. And you might be like, I remember orange, smell of grass, right? And we have to watch that the daytime mind is going to be like, “No, you didn’t, you’re making that up. That’s not true.” ‘Cause the daytime mind’s like, “Hey, when the sun’s up, I’m in charge.”
– Yeah, and the hints are there. Do you ever get a waft of a dream from like years ago?
– I’ve been having more of that lately than actually remembering my dreams which I think is really interesting.
– So you are remembering your dreams.
– Right, I mean the current, like the days dream but other ones, yeah.
– I love this, I remember.
– I remember, I remember. And then we stay consistent with it. So if you’re really wanting to remember your dreams, then commit to seven days of writing down your dreams every day for seven days. And then there is an art actually because one morning you’re going to be like, “oh my God, I got it. I got the whole thing.” And the mistake that we can make is we don’t write it down soon enough.
– Yes, that happens to me. I hate… Even if I’m like, “Let me just get up and pee real quick.” No.
– No, no. Like, it looks like a crazy person. Like, I’ll right like green grass, it’s not a green grass, my ex husband, red truck. I’ll just write down kind of the main players that come up and then get up, use the restroom. And then, yeah, one of the biggest mistakes we can make with our dreams, we’ve gone over two, one of them is to dumb it down and call it names.
– And that’s just your daytime mind talking.
– That’s it. Your soul just got done giving you instruction, a unique message for you about your life. It told you what’s going on in your life, it also gave you a next best step or told you how to resolve it and we wake up and the daytime mind’s like, “Out of here.” That was weird.
– Yeah, what a bitch?
– Yeah, it really can be. But that’s the best way to remember your dreams, is to commit to it and commit to writing something down every day for seven days and write it down right away.
– And then, because truly like you’re saying, it’s a muscle. It also communicates to the subconscious mind, “we’re doing this, I’m in.” I’m in.
– I’m paying attention to you.
– Paying attention to you. I’m here, I’m really here. I’m not just saying I’m here. I am here. And you know what, Elizabeth, I think, sorry to interrupt you But what happens for me is then the interior conversation or that mystical connection or that deeper way of seeing. So it’s like the daytime mind is shallow, the interior is deep, right? And it’s textured. And so what I’ll find is ’cause I have dream times. Like you just mentioned this. There’re times where I’m actively dreaming like right now, ’cause I’m in the territory of the dream. I have times where I’m actively dreaming and I have times where I’m not, right? And the times when I’m actively dreaming, I feel so much more connected to my surroundings, to nature, to my friends, to conversations, to my intuition,
– my creativity.
– I’m glad you said that because that was actually something I was gonna ask you. I feel like I go through cycles of when like the dreams are just like common and then maybe there won’t be. And so I’m curious, any perspective you have, experience opinions, correlation, things you’ve noticed in yourself for your clients, when and why that happens. One of the things I’ve noticed is sometimes I just need the priority is rest, not communication. Like I literally just need to freaking sleep.
– Yeah, yeah. I 100% agree with you. I remember one time, I take groups down to the Yucatan and we do dream work in the morning just like I did with Muddy Elena, my very first teacher. We always did dreams first thing in the morning. And so the instruction is that at night, if you wake up to use the bathroom, that you write your dreams down and this one woman was like, “That pisses me off. “I don’t want to have… That feels so rude.” That’s what she said. “That feels so rude to have to wake up in the middle of the night and write something down.” Like she just wanted to come stay in this sleeping space ’cause part of her really needed obviously to rest.
– Dreams, when they’re really prevalent and they’re coming kind of at rapid fire, they’re trying to get your attention.
– Because your dreams can see something about you. My dreams can see something about me that my daytime mind cannot.
– The daytime mind filters out a lot of things like a daytime mind is very barely willing to say “I’m wrong.” Right? Or I’m… And it goes outside for its information and it points fingers and all of those things and our interior is really, I would say our soul is our most unconditionally loving aspect of ourselves because soul is inclusive of the many parts of ourselves, inclusive of the many ideas, inclusive of the many you name it.
– Do you think, does conditioning come up in our dreams?
– Yes. Absolutely yes. And conditioning is another one of the reasons why we can’t remember our dreams by the way. It’s also one of the mistakes we make about our dreams in terms of dumbing it down is that not many, I don’t know. I wasn’t raised in the morning where my mother or my aunties or my dad or my uncle said “What did you dream last night?”
– You know what I mean? So yes, our conditioning will show up in our dreams or our awareness of a conditioning that’s not working for us will show up in our dreams.
– Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, totally. Okay, when you talk about writing things down, you said something like you briefly said it and I wanna come back to it because I’ve experimented with different… So when you have a dream and you really remember a lot of the details, I personally sometimes can feel a little overwhelmed, so I get as much of a down as possible before I forget. Even as I’m writing, I’m like, it’s slipping away as I’m writing it.
– I know.
– Which isn’t necessarily true but sometimes it feels that way. So it sounds like you were saying to like write down the big movers first, like write down the things that moved you the most, rather than writing down the play by play or is that different for everybody?
– Yeah. Well, it’s just a different technique. So there’s a few different ways to work the interior of a dream. The first part of dreamwork is what I call the bone structure. It’s the calling in a dream, remembering the dream. and then re-remembering the dream, putting the dream back together is writing that dream out. There’s a couple of different ways to do that. PS, the next part of the next bone of dreamwork is then extracting the messages, the guidance, the instruction from the dream. And the final part, the final bone is putting that to work in your day-to-day life. So we’ll come back to that place of there’s a couple of different ways to write out a dream. The first way is really the way we should, not should, it’s a great practice in the beginning, right? It’s kind of like learning a dance step. You’re a dancer, right? And in the beginning you learn it the way it’s taught to you and then as it gets in your bones and it gets under your skin, you add your own flair.
– It’s easy for you. But the first way is to really write it down in as much detail as possible. Once you’re sitting down with your dream journal, okay? And add the feelings and the textures and all these things. Another way, it is kind one of my more favorite go-to ways is to write it down like it’s a play, the major players. The major players. So it’s starring and something to remember for all of us is that if a symbol, your dreams are made up of symbols. Anything can be symbolic to the soul, anything. So if your dream had a rose bush, but the part that you were really focused on was the thorns, that’s a player in the dream, the thorns. That’s a player in the dream. If your dream took place in the middle of a storm at night, right? ‘Cause there’s never an assumption that the storm is during the day, so storm at night and you’re on a boat and you’re out to sea, right? At night on a boat, out to sea are all players in the dream. It makes sense?
– Yeah, I love that. By the way, I mean, your dream course, you go through all this so, people are listening, if you’re sitting there like, “Ooh, but what about .” Go get the freaking course, it’s at heatherlindemann.com. We’re gonna put links to all the things in the show notes, and what I love about Heather’s course, I take them, she’s my friend and she tries to like send them to me for free and I’m like, “Let me pay for it, it’s so good. Let me be a student.” And there are sealed by the way, I just want everyone to know. This writing it sound like a play, I love that and I love how you also mentioned like get the things down and then layer on like the emotions and the things and whatever, because that’s something that stands out to me often with a dream when I’m so really feeling it. In the morning or into the next day, some things, and it will be different things so I love that you were talking about the different types of symbols. Like anything could be a symbol even, I think I told you this a couple of weeks ago. My grandpa was in my dream. I wanna talk about when people are in your dreams, right? Because,
– there’s different types of dreams. Certainly there are dreams that could be like ports, there are dreams that, are showing you parts of yourself. I experienced dreams sometimes as the opportunity to process something that I can’t process in the daylight with the people. I’ve had dreams over the years where I got… This has happened with several, Both of my parents, I think my brother once, a couple of different ex’s. Where like my anger, I. got to just lay into these people and say shit I would never say to people in real life ’cause I don’t talk to people like that, and I try my best not to be a violent communicator. I say I try my best ’cause I’m still from Staten Island, and sometimes I can’t help myself.
– Get you behind the wheel of the car and let’s see what happened.
– Exactly. Literally. That’s the place by the way, that’s the place. But and then I woke up and it’s like cathartic to be like, “Oh God, I just needed to be an un-involved bitch in that dream. Thank you.” And I wake up and I’m like thanking the dream, like, “God, thank you for letting me get that out of my system.” So I think there’s healing dreams. But then always also, and you’ve always taught me this and sometimes I get irritated with you for this and you know this. When I’m like, “But I don’t wanna think about what it says about me, I wanna think about it says about everyone else. I want it to,
– “I wanna connect it literally to that person and what they mean to me or what they’re doing, and not doing in my life.” So, can we explore the different types of dreams?
– Yes, and we’ll start with that one. So I have a saying dreams don’t lie and if you do, they’ll never reveal their wisdom, messages and guidance.
– It’s a great direct way of putting it.
– Well, ’cause I have this sense and this practice that any time, I’m working with myself or anybody else, and we’re crossing that threshold into the territory of soul, into the interior that the soul likes things to be sacred. That’s it’s,
– container, that’s the container, right? The sacred container of the soul. And so in order for things to be sacred, we have to sacrifice pretending, to no pretending to zone, and in order for us to really get the most out of dream work, we have to be willing to see ourselves clearly. So no pretending. And that we also have to sacrifice the idea that we’re doing it alone, because there is this idea that the interior dreamer is the ancestor, the inner elder, and that all of our ancestors, all of our ancestral dreamers, the dreamers that have come before us, the dreamers from the tribes and the villages, right? And the dream that held its own sacred place in the circle, Held it’s, the dream, right? There in a lot of traditions, it isn’t my dream. It’s the dream and that’s actually how Marie Laina inducted us into dream work as well, was that you might dream it, but it’s for me too. So that’s another type of the dream, another way to dream.
– I’m gonna asterix that because something that happens to me a lot, really, and I can track it back to 2015 when I launched this podcast, and it makes sense, right? I’m a people’s psyche because they’ve spent hundreds of hours with my voice in their ear, right? So people will tell me all the time, “Oh, you were my dream.” And I’m always like, “Tell me about it.” And I get little nuggets, I always get little nuggets, it’s like, I get that it was your dream, and that part of this is whatever in your psyche is now associated with me, but if you felt the need to come and tell me that I was in your dream, there’s something in this message for me too.
– Yeah, there could be, there absolutely could be. Same thing. People will text me all the time and say, “I had a dream about you last night.” And I’m so interested, I’m like, “Oh, tell me what was I doing”
– Yeah, that’s always what I ask.
– “In your dream?” Right? “What was I doing?” And then I’ll ask them to do this on their own, come up with five words or phrases that you would use to describe me. Five words, phrases that you would use to describe me. Don’t tell me, it’s none of my business, if you think I’m a bitch or,
– I irritated you, we’re working together or something like that, what is it? And then I’ll say to them, “That medicine is active in your life right now, in you.” So it’s like a pill, right? That medicine of, so your client sees you as the goddess, they see you as really just, just brave and unleashed and willing to say like it is or sensual, right? I have a client who also works with you and she had a dream about you and we worked it together.
– Stop it, that’s so funny.
– Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was like in the dream, you were very sensual and this person was really wanting to step into her own sensuality.
– I love that.
– And so I told her, “That is available to you right now, that is available to you right now so yes possibly.” My phone just rang and I don’t even know where it is.
– Sorry guys.
– That’s okay.
– It’s on the ground. That’s where it’s supposed to be, right? So I had a client who had a dream that I was cleaning out her closet, that I could come over to her house and I was cleaning out her closet. I said, “List three to five words or phrases that you would use to describe me.” And that part is, in one of the things she said is teacher, right? And so I said that the teacher, or another word for teacher is as an authority, although I don’t see myself that way, right? That the teacher or the inner authority is the one part of you that’s active, right? In cleaning out your closet. So list three to five words or phrases that you would use to describe what it is that you’re cleaning out of this closet, and she said things that don’t fit anymore. So this inner authority, this inner teacher is the one that’s in charge of cleaning out things from your closet, which is something that’s hidden or replaced to things are stored, right? Right, she’s the one that’s in charge of that. And then the final question is, where is that happening in your life? And that’s this medial threshold mystic move, that’s really strengthening inner mystic when we’re on the top side world in working this dream, working with this dream, interpreting the stream and we take the messages and the guidance, the symbolic messages and the guidance out of this swimmy metaphoric dream place, bring it to the top side world, right? And lay it down next to our life.
– Where in life are you cleaning out things that don’t fit? Right? Well, I’m doing that everywhere. I’m not, coming into my ’40s and I’m not friends with a lot of the same people, and I’m choosing to be around different people in my life, wherever it is, right? And that they get to know that inner teacher, the inner authority is the one in charge of doing that.
– I love that. So I took us on a tangent, let’s go back types of dreams.
– Oh, all right. Well.
– So we just talked about when there’s people, that’s what we just talked about.
– Oh yeah, you can dream about other people can star, on your dream, famous people can star in your dream, president of the United States can star in your dream.
– I had an amazing make-out session with John Hammond in a dream once.
– Oh, yeah.
– I was like, “Does this mean my strong John lover is on his way to me?”
– Or it could mean whatever it is
– I know.
– It’s so .
– Feels like what we wanted. There’s what we want it to mean and then what it probably really does mean.
– Right, well, there’s, pre-cognitive dreams. I dreamt that my ex husband is cheating on me before I knew it, I dreamt it, right? There’s absolutely pre-cognitive dreams, they happen less often than people would like to think. The daytime mind wants it to be about other, the daytime mind wants to think it’s happening outside, right? If you wanna use dreamwork to really grow, to really grow in your life, work your dreams as if they are for you, about you and for you.
– About you and for you. I had someone who said, I had a dream that, she’s called me up and she said, “I think I have a ghost in my house.” She said, “In the middle of the night, I was having this dream and I woke up and I saw this eight year old girl standing in my bedroom.” Okay. But she’s like, “I don’t know if I was still dreaming or not, but I felt like I was awake, but it still felt like I was dreaming.” And this person I know, had a sexual trauma when she was eight years old.
– And at this time in her life, she was in her ’40s, she’d been having some challenges with her sexuality, with her husband. So this eight year old girl showed up in her bedroom. You see the metaphor of that?
– This eight year old girl was active in her intimate life with her husband, right? So you could say, “Where is that happening in your life?”
– Or, and you could also work at like, maybe the ghost of your eight year old is living in your house, or maybe there is a ghost in your house. And so you can do both. I also had some woman call me, I was on my way to India, and she’s a woman I used to know in my past, and called me the morning I was going to India for the very time and said, Don’t go, I received a dream, it was a warning for you. You’re gonna get in trouble, you’re gonna get sick, all this and that.” And I was like, “What?” And it’s not, “I mean, what?” My dream, my trip was perfect, my trip was perfect, and I was like, “You need to be really careful about this idea that you’ve had a pre-cognitive dream about me. You gotta really clear and really pretty sure.” So it’s like, “Well, where in your life are you traveling to foreign places? Where are you afraid? Where do you feel like think things are gonna go wrong?
– Do you notice that like, if something is pre-cognitive, or something is like, kind of earlier, like I was describing like the cognitive dream, the way I can tell the differences is literally how I feel.
– When I wake up, like when I sit with what was happening, I’m like, “Ooh, that was.” Actually last night, a friend of mine was in my dream, and this is not a close friend, and someone I’ve actually been really tentative about even befriending. and there was something in my dream that was revealing about why it was right to feel that way. And that did feel like
– the dream let me know that this thing that has been on my mind anyway is, I should mind my instinct on that.
– A great point in terms of dialoguing with the dream. So you can dialogue with the dream when you wake up and say, “Is that something that’s real that’s not about me that, it’s for me it’s not about me, but I need to be really aware of.” Give me a sign, help, really, I need to know.” And I would send that, I don’t wanna use the word warning out to people but before you knee jerk, going back to the other thing before you knee jerk you can call someone and say, “Red alert, you’re gonna get in a car accident.” Really sit with your dream. Maybe even talk to somebody else about it before you rock something like that. But the good news is that even like the dream that you had, it can be worked both ways.
– And you can sort of check in you can work it for you, this is for me and about me which it is most of the time, okay? For me and about me can work it that way to see if there’s any juice in there for you. And then go, “Okay, well, and it’s this other way too and so I can proceed with caution.”
– So I know this because I know you, you are not into these like dream books, dream catalogs, like a boat means this a car means this, a jaguar means this. And I’m curious, why not? I mean, I know the answer, but I want you to tell the people.
– Okay. Well, let’s go back to the daytime mind that wants to go outside of itself for the answer.
– Right? The daytime mind habituated to going to the book. The daytime mind also wants answers and it wants it now, right?
– It wants to go quick, it wants instant gratification. Okay?
– It wants to know.
– It wants to know, and it wants somebody else to tell it, right? So the daytime mind is interested in knowledge, the daytime mind can’t connect to knowing. As the knowing is visceral, it’s a feeling it’s so medic.
– Okay, this is a real, the daytime mind is attached to knowledge, but it cannot connect to knowing. And knowledge is something-
– What’s the difference between knowledge and knowing?
– Right, and we just. Knowledge is like we just fill our heads with all the things.
– Right? And there it shall stay, there it shall stay. And the knowing is when we connect with something and we find that, well, the knowing is your territory, the knowing is the territory that you initiate people into.
– Okay? Is how do you know, how do you know? So different. It’s so different than that, “Aha, Tell me.” Another interesting thing too about knowledge is that we pay a lot of money for it. I mean, I need knowledge to figure out my phone and I need knowledge to learn how to get on to Zoom.
– Don’t sit here and like, “I know how to Zoom.” It’s different. But when we try to use the daytime mind to work with our dream material, when we try to use our daytime mind to work with arriving at our own inner knowing, we’re using the wrong tool, we’ll get nowhere fast, nowhere fast. People have to pay a lot of money for knowledge, and then they get psychics and all of these things and they pay, pay, pay, pay, pay. You tell me, you tell me, and it never works. And they end up with people like you and me, who are saying, “No, you tell me.”
– Right? No one can tell you, you tell me. Let’s find your own unique way into your knowing. I feel like I got a little off-road there. Where were we going? We were talking about-
– No, we’re good. I’m always steering the ship here and I love tangents.
– Okay, good.
– And you know I’m a good trucker, so I’ll always come back to what loops we need to close, and we’ll leave some open loops and you’ll come back.
– That’s fine. We were talking about, I asked you why you don’t like the,
– Oh yeah.
– Dream lists, blogs books, this is what this means, this is what that means.
– Okay, can we do a little fun thing right now?
– I’m gonna show you, I’m showing Elizabeth a picture of, what is that Elizabeth?
– A feather.
– Okay, tell me more, what is that. Tell me about what this is? Well, I don’t know what kind of bird it is, but also this particular feather looks like it might have snapped, like it’s a little bent. But it looks round, and then wide as it gets closer to, what do you call that root, stem? Like what’s the bottom of the feather called?
– I’m not gonna say. Okay.
– So focus on it and, become the voice of it. All right. And let it complete this phrase, but you speak for it ’cause you’re the interpreter I am.
– I am soft.
– Hmm. Where is that happening in your life?
– In my heart.
– Okay. That’s why dream workbooks don’t work. ‘Cause,
– I love you so much.
– I just got the goosebumps, I am soft. It’s the first thing you said when we got on today. “I’m tender and soft.” So if you have a dream or you’re out and about you pick up, this is a black crow feather. This is a black feather from a crow. You pick up a feather, right? You’re like, “Oh, I think it’s a crow feather.” And then you go to the Ted Andrews “Animal Speak” book, which I love. It’s taught me so much about working with animal medicine. Right? And you go to that and it tells you the wisdom of the crow and the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? When in reality, the message of this for you is different than that. The message, right? The message for you is, I am soft. I am soft, right? And it was so interesting that you thought it was bent. Right? That you saw that it was bent.
– So interesting.
– So, is it, or is that like, as it just a weird that’s how I was looking through the Zoom screen?
– No, it’s just kind of arched.
– Oh, interesting.
– Yeah, it’s just kind of arched. So the dream very rarely is a dream have one symbol of it.
– Right? And it could have say it’s just an ocean. Okay, it’s an ocean, but it’s also is the deep end of the ocean, is it the shallow part of the ocean? Is it a tumultuous ocean? Is it a calm ocean? Is it a Caribbean sea or is it an Atlantic ocean? How you would describe it is so much different than how I would describe it.
– And so when we open up a dream… I had a dear friend who just went through like complete and total health through a divorce, and the whole thing for two years, it was just a nightmare. And on she’s done so much work on herself, and the other morning she woke up one word, ready. One word, ready. That word would mean something so different for you and me and her, so different. That’s why dream workbooks and Google searches don’t work. Because it’s our own personal association to whatever it is that we’re seeing, our own idea, our own knowing, our own experience, our own seeing, of something.
– This is reminded me of, many years ago, I dated someone who was really, really into Myers-Briggs. Do you know Myers-Briggs like ENFJ, INFJ all that.
– He was really into that and one of the ways that he would describe the difference that second letter, sensing or intuitive is basically how you engage with information, I think. And so I’m an N, you’re obviously an N, the intuitive people are more about like connecting the dots, seeing patterns and things like that, symbol as a metaphor, and the sensor people that people with the S are much more like literal interpretations of things. The metaphor that he would give for this sometimes would be like, like if I handed you a rose, someone who is the intuitive might go, “Oh, well, rose is remind me of my grandmother, because that was her favorite flower.” Someone who’s a sensor, who’s just like the more literal and detail oriented might be like, “Oh, well, it’s red, it has thorns, it smells like this, maybe it’s wilting a little bit, or it’s not fully bloomed.” And I just keep thinking about that as you’re talking about these dream things, ’cause it doesn’t matter, like there’s no right or wrong, but it’s about what is your association? So if you’re noticing the color, so what made me say soft, by the way, when you held up that feather, the whole thing is like glistening and like pretty like neat, but then closer to the bottom, it’s like fuzzy, it looks furry, it looks like fur, not even like a feather closer to the bottom, and I was imagining if I felt that but that would feel very soft and that’s where I got soft from. And it’s also looks messier at the bottom, and I’ve come through this moving experience where things have been quite messy for me for like the last two months. So of course I’m more drawn to the mess than like the neat, like glistening, shiny, shimmering put together part of it. ‘Cause that’s top of mind for me and we’re working with, like you said, the daytime minds.
– So hat’s also another thing, and you said this kind of earlier about dreams, but this is something I’ve been saying about intuition for a very long time, which all of this is in the realm of the soul. It’s called infinite intelligence for a reason. It’ll use whatever it needs to use to get your attention, to get you the message that it’s trying to frigging get you.
– Which is also why we have reoccurring dreams too.
– Yeah. Whoo, let’s talk about that. I actually, I’m curious. I don’t think I know this about you. I don’t get reoccurring dreams, I’ve never had the same dream twice but I get reoccurring themes.
– Absolutely. Yeah, and it’s a distinction because, and we can also have a reoccurring theme within the same dream. Sometimes if you’re like a big dreamer, like a marathon dreamer, but you don’t know what they mean, but you just have these big dreams that you remember. Sometimes people will be like, “It’s so big, I have no idea how to work it.”
– Yeah, but when you ride it out, you will see a reoccurring theme. So oftentimes especially when we start to do dream work together, excuse me. If someone will say, “I just have this giant dream and I’m so intimidated by it and I don’t know how to even hear it.” I’ll say, “Well, just ride it all the way out and kind of scan it for a reoccurring theme, and then you can just work one part of it and you’ll get this…” ‘Cause the dream is like, “Here it is again, here it is again, here it is again, here it is again.” Yes, so you’ll have reoccurring themes, and it’s the way our soul, right? Our souls, like “Ding dong, ding dong, ding dong, your daytime mind still isn’t getting it, I’m coming back and I’m gonna maybe I’ll get it this way, or maybe it’ll get it that way or maybe.” Right?
– Yeah, like years, years, years, years. Did I tell you about, so one of my reoccurring themes for as long as I can remember is getting chased.
– Someone’s trying to hurt me, and in the last year, two things have happened that have never happened in my entire life of having that recurring theme in my dreams. The first thing is I just let someone get me one night. I just like walked right up to them, and I let them shoot me in the stomach and I woke up.
– I remember it. So I’d always either woken up before anyone could get me, or gotten away. So it was like, I don’t know. I either don’t know what happens, or I got away. So I walked up to the person, I let them shoot me right in the stomach, and then a different one. I think I told you about this ’cause it was like hilarious to me. I was running, there was like a field, there was like a battlefield and I basically needed to get from where I was, which was kind of like a bunker type territory, to this house where my allies or whoever was on my side or my team was, and there was like quite a field to run through. And I had this moment of being like, “You know what? Fuck this, I’m not running, if they get me, they get me.” And I just started dancing in the field, instead of running. And as I started dancing in the fields, someone comes out of the house that I’m trying to get towards with like a bazooka and doesn’t shoot and kill these people who were trying to harm me, but the bazooka, it shoots out and then goes in another direction, and like just totally distressed ’cause then everyone’s looking at the bazooka missile and then I ran to the house.
– And I was like, “Ha, I guess I’m just not in the mood, to be running away from shit anymore.”
– And exactly? Where is this happening in my life? Where in my life am I hunkered down and, hunkered in and in a bunker and protected where in my life do I have a desire to move beyond or move through this field, this battle field, what am I battling with? What have I been battling with, right? Where in my life, if I just made this decision where, “I’m not gonna engage in the battle anymore.” Right? What part of me is active, right? So, that’s going to just completely distract this battle, or those that are battling, or the parts of yourself that you’re battling with, right? So that I can get to safety. Each and every part of that is you.
– Each and every part of that dream is you.
– Yeah. I had a, a reoccurring dream for a long time that an ex-boyfriend who legitimately stocked me when I was in my early ’20s, I had this reoccurring dream that he was chasing me, and he showed up at all different ways. Sometimes he was a shark sometime it was him as the person I knew him to be, but he was chasing me and I was running, and I was in massage school at the time and one of my teachers, I told him this dream ’cause it was really distressing. And he said, “So there’s a technique in dreamwork called, active imagination.” It’s the exact same technique we use in simple speak, right? I just took you through a simple speak process of looking at this feather.
– So, you’re awake and you’re in your daytime mind and you come back and you re-engage with the dream, active imagination. So you use your imagination to go back into the dream, and he said, “Let’s go back in the dream, stop running, turn around, look at him. Stop running.” ‘Cause at this one dream, I was like running up a lighthouse, you know what I mean? Like, and he was behind me and I was gonna end up at the top of the white house, and it was gonna be like super scary and awful. And he says, “Stop running, turn around and look at him.” And so through my active, active imagination, I turned around and I looked at him, and he said he stopped ’cause my teacher was like, “I’m right here with you, you’re safe, it’s okay.” He stopped and he said, “I’ve been trying to get you to tell you, I’m sorry.”
– “I’ve been trying to get you to tell you, I’m sorry.” And that’s one of those dreams that I think in real life, ’cause he was an addict and he had a really difficult life. I think he was at that point in his life was probably in recovery, ’cause at some point he went to rehab and was, he’s like, “I’m sorry, I’ve been trying to get you to tell you I’m sorry, please forgive, please forgive me.” So that was… It’d be interesting too about that bazooka dream. Not the bazooka dream, I remember when you stopped and let it shoot you in the stomach, it’s very distressing. That’s a very distressing imagery. So something we can do in our dreams especially nightmares is write them out in as much detail as we possibly can, and instead of working the dream from your perspective, or from my perspective, we can then begin to dialogue with other characters in the dream.
– What do they see? What do they say? What’s happening? What’s the person that shot you in the stomach, what do they have to say, right?
– Yeah. That is one of my probably most compassionate and go-to techniques to work with people around their nightmares. But it really is a tender territory as well.
– Super tender. What do you make of, ’cause you just mentioned like sometimes it was a shark, or sometimes it was him as I knew him. I’ve had a bunch of dreams over the years where I’m looking at someone and I know it’s them, but it’s not their face. It’s somebody else’s face.
– Mm-hmm. We go back to the association, go back to the association of three to five words or phrases or more, that you would use to describe what it is that you’re seeing, or your relationship to what it is that you’re seeing, right? You go straight back there because, it’s a riddle. Dr. Clarissa Pinkola Estés who wrote “Women who Run with the Wolves,” who’s one of my teachers, she was telling a story about, I think it’s Freud. And if you’re listening to this and I’m wrong, in my recollection, it was Freud or Young, but I think it was Freud, that for years and years and years this man came to do dream analysis with Sigmund Freud. And at the end of it, he said, “Guess what? I’ve been lying and making that up the whole time.” Right? “Those were never my dreams.” And Freud said, “If they can come from your imagination, they live in your subconscious, it doesn’t matter.” Right? I don’t know why I’m comparing that with what you just said for some reason it just arrived. So that the dreamer can… That’s its own symbolic thing. Somebody else’s face, someone’s body that with a different face, right? It’s wearing a different face. Like how ever you would describe that probably there’s a phrase in there. It speaks to where you’re at in your life. Does that make sense?
– Yeah, makes a lot of sense. And I’m also hearing in that, that the words you choose to describe your own dream also really matter.
– Which is why dream workbooks don’t, dream dictionaries don’t work. The way that you would. So I had a dream where at a time where. was really working with my relationship with my mother who’s been gone, she died when I was 23. But this patterning and this program coming from my mother had been really active, I was going through a time where I was becoming really aware of this patterning and programming from her, with her, and resolving a lot on the top side world in my life. So I had this dream, the dream will speak to you where you’re at, it’ll tell you exactly where you’re at, it will also give you instruction, okay? So the dream opens and I’m in this hotel, but it was like one of those really modern hotels where there was really almost nothing there. You hear that phrase. My mother and I were sitting in the lobby of this really modern stark hotel, where there was really nothing there. That phrase, where is this happening in my life? Where am I with my mother, right? But there’s really nothing there. I had been working so hard on this pattern and this program, right? And the dream was saying, there’s really nothing there anymore.
– Right? It’s not cluttered, it’s not this, it’s not that, it’s just really clean how I would describe it, there’s really nothing there, we were just sitting there together. So when I woke up, the dream, went on to speak about other things, but when I woke up, I was like, “Oh, I’m doing a good job. My interior world is telling me. Right? And I could see where is that happening in my life? If these things, ’cause I a friend and I , look like this terrible thing that’s happening with a friend and really it was an old pattern and program from my mom, and the drink said “Nothing there anymore.”
– So, good. And again, I also just love your phrasing of calling it the interior world to just remember that there’s this whole inner terrain.
– it’s just so deep and this really is like, this is the mystical life, this is what it is. Can you tell the good people if they are interested in the dream course, how’s it set up? What do they get if they wanna do? I’m gonna do the course by the way, people. What is coursework? It’s a six week course, we start September 9th, so for six Thursdays, we gather live via Zoom, and the calls are recorded if you can’t make it. We gather live in Zoom, for an hour and a half in the morning from 9:00 to 10:00 AM, pacific standard time from 12 to 1:30 Eastern time, the course is divided into three thresholds. The threshold one is the bones, that’s where we learned the structure, the structure of dreamwork, the simple structures, we go deep dive into the rituals, the calling in, the remembering of the dream, that connection and the dialoguing, reconnection with the inner dreamer, talk about all the mistakes you can make, et cetera, et cetera. Threshold two is the flesh. So it’s the bones, the flesh and the life of the dream. So threshold two is where we get into a lot of what you and I have been talking about today is how to extract the messages and the meanings from your dreams. And over the years I’ve been so interested in dreamwork. Dreamwork has literally been my main. way of learning and growing the main way for me of learning and growing, and bringing all of that wisdom to the upside world and applying it so, I’ve been so interested that I’ve taken a lot of dream courses too, and some of them are so freaking technical. I feel like I have a master’s degree in depth psychology in order to understand what the instructor is saying. And it is a barrier for me, right? To remember this language, some of them are so freaking esoteric. It’s like the teachers in the dream, and they’re all this swimmy lyrical language that might… ‘Cause my top side mind needs to get it, it’s outside my daytime minds like, what? I’ve developed for myself, what I think is a good combination of structure, creativity and playfulness, and time. And we have time because the inner dreamers the inner elder and the inner elder goes slow. So we have time. So I’m teaching it live six Thursdays in a row, and I’m also, the Tuesday following the threshold calls, I’m in our private, we have like a non social media community for your kajobie, so I’m in there working dreams with people, people can ask me questions I’m in there, live on, I think it’s five Tuesdays in a raw. Yeah.
– I’m realizing I was just looking so. I know you said it’s September 9th, this interview doesn’t actually air until September 13th.
– Oh, how exciting, so I’ll do it again.
– Okay, and people can’t get it later. There’s not gonna be like, is there gonna be like a DIY or people can pop in or.
– Well, where they can start is with “Symbol Speak.”
– Because I created “Symbol Speak,” Symbol Speak is one of the tools that I use to help people extract the meanings from their dreams, it’s mystic training in and of itself, and it helps people to connect with what their interior has to say about what they’re seeing on the exterior, right? It takes them out of this linear mind and into the deeper knowing of their life.
– Okay, so some people still may hear about it on Instagram, so I’m gonna share it on Instagram. I want people to take in the stream thing ’cause it’s great.
– And I’ll do it again. I’ll do it again in the winter. And for now I’m gonna be teaching a dream speak live, I think for the next couple of times, ’cause I have taken dream courses that are prerecorded videos. And just for me, I didn’t love it. Just for me I wanted to kind of have more access to some support and some guidance, I think for the next couple of times I will teach it live.
– Okay, good. Yeah because, I mean to actually work the dream with you, which I’ve had the pleasure of doing on many occasions in my life, is a really beautiful, magical thing. So, I love you so much. Is there anything I didn’t ask you that you’re like, “Oh, I wish we would’ve talked about this.”?
– No, there is one more thing I did wanna say, is that I also induct people in dream works through my mentorship. So I have a three more than three month mentorship, and that’s one-on-one and the dream material is the high on the alternate of the heart during that. So, and that’s on my website, but, did we miss anything? I don’t think so. There’s, I’ll work with the material in my dreams for the rest of my life. I’ll be remembering more listening for more interesting techniques and ways to work with the energy, and we’re forever. There is no like place to get to with this.
– Yeah. It’s like an infinite, like you’re not gonna run out. There’s just so much, so much symbolism, so many layers.
– Yeah. And I think I do just wanna say, I’m so grateful to be able to have this conversation, and I’m so grateful for anyone who’s interested in their inner dreamer, it’s that call and response to our own inner wisdom. I’m so grateful when people are so interested in my dreams, because to me that says, I’m so interested in my inner knowing and my inner life and my inner world. Yes.
– And there’s just so many roads in for that,
– Oh there is.
– There’s just so many roads in for that and I loved how that was so complimentary. So great. So this is episode number 359, so everyone who wants anything that we talked about, go to untamedyourself.com/359. All of the links to all of the things will be there. If you follow me on Instagram, you can easily find Heather because I tag Heather and stuff all the time. But also it’s Heather Lindemann and Lindemann is L-I-N-D-E-M-E-N-N.
– Yes, it is.
– Finally, it took me like three years to get that right. You just get Lindemenn all the time, don’t you?
– Or Lindermenn, I’ve never put an R, but I used to do M-A-N instead of M-E-N-N.
– Oh, yeah, people want an R in there so bad. Thank you so much, this was so wonderful.
– Oh my God. All right, everyone, go get you some more Heather on the interwebs in some way, shape or form and we’ll see you later.