Is accountability enough? How does actionability factor into the process of accountability?
We see it often: Some big-name celebrity, author, or self help star jumps on the bandwagon of a newly relevant social cause, and suddenly they’re being treated as a savior of the people. But when you really pay attention, their motivations become clear, and their actions are often performative at best, harmful at worst. But accountability without actionability isn’t enough.
In today’s episode, I’m chatting with anti-racism and decolonization educator and activist Louiza “Weeze” Doran about the importance of actionability in addition to accountability.
With the rise of “cancel culture,” we’ve witnessed plenty of big names lose their platforms due to lack of accountability. But at the same time, others are celebrated for posting a black square, sharing a “peace and love” quote, or taking a lukewarm stand.
It’s high time we hold the loudest voices in our society accountable for their actions, not just their words. Because as Weeze says in this episode, actionability is the true test of integrity.
Join me in today’s episode as I chat with Weeze about the cultural shifts we’re seeing right now. We’re getting real about the biggest names in the self-help industry (ie Brene Brown) and why they thrive in our white-centric, capitalist society. Plus, we’re talking about the ways you can open yourself up to others’ viewpoints while still protecting your energy and truth.
Listen to episode 379 now!
In episode 379 of the Embodied Podcast we discuss:
- [3:36] Growing up in a multi-religious family and learning to appreciate different ways of thinking
- [7:30] Communing with your “divine support squad” and ancestral knowledge
- [9:55] How we change on our journeys to decolonize and decondition ourselves
- [13:05] The integrity of actionability and how to see through virtual signaling
- [27:38] Digging deeper into the messages we accept as truth
- [33:58] Being able to hold many truths at once instead of falling into the ‘us vs. them’ trap
- [38:14] Leading with curiosity instead of judgment
- [46:24] Opening yourself up to other viewpoints while also protecting your energy and your truths
- [50:44] How to find knowledgeable voices and avoid those that aren’t worth your energy
- [59:20] Why we should hold the loud voices in our culture accountable and start digging into their motivations
Resources mentioned by Elizabeth in the episode:
- Watch Weeze’s video on Joe Rogan
- Connect with Weeze on Instagram
- Sign up for her newsletter
- Join her online community, “The Academy”
- Join The Wild Soul Sacred Body Membership.
- Email us with questions or feedback.
- Don’t miss an episode of The Embodied Podcast.
Quotes from this week’s episode:
- [00:10:59] “Urgency is a function of white supremacy, so we do our best to create kind timelines.” – Elizabeth
- [00:23:30] “I do think that as people who have platforms specifically as big as those, we have a responsibility to the people that follow us and that listen to us to be transparent in the reasons that we are making leadership decisions at all times.” – Weeze
- [00:36:10] “If I’m not causing harm and I’m very intentionally navigating the world with an intention to be able to not only reduce my harm impact, but try to protect others as much as I can where my privilege allows, then why do you care what I do with my body or what choices I make for myself?” – Weeze
- [00:52:18] “From a healing perspective, we need to stop giving platforms to people who clearly need therapy, to people who need to do their own work.” – Elizabeth
- [00:59:33] “We have to stop pretending like we haven’t seen the signals all along. We have to stop pretending like people haven’t shown us where their values lie, or their platform, or what their platform is used for the entire time.” – Weeze
- [01:04:27] “It’s all about everyone’s liberation. I actually don’t care what social identity you hold. We are all confined. We are all shackled. Yeah, because we’re living in a system that is meant to control us for a variety of reasons.” – Weeze
How was this episode for you?
Was this episode helpful for you today? I’d love to know what quote or lesson touched your soul. Let me know in the comments below OR share the episode on Instagram, tag me your stories @elizabethdialto, or send me a DM!
About the Embodied Podcast with Elizabeth DiAlto
Since 2013 I’ve been developing a body of work that helps women embody self-love, healing, and wholeness. We do this by focusing on the four levels of consciousness – physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual.
In practical terms, this looks like exploring tools and practices to help you tune into the deep wisdom of the body and the knowing of the heart, which I believe are gateways to our souls. Then we cultivate a new relationship with our minds that allows the mind to serve this wisdom and knowledge and soul connection, rather than override it, which is what many of us were taught.
If you’ve been doing self-help or spiritual development work for a while, these are the types of foundational things that often people overlook in pursuit of fancier concepts that often aren’t practical or sustainable. Here, we will focus on building these strong foundations so you can honestly and thoroughly embody self-love. If you’re feeling it, subscribe to the show, and leave us a review wherever you listen from. You can also keep up with show updates and community discussion on Instagram here.
Transcripts for Episode 379:
– What’s up everybody. Welcome to episode number 379 of the “Embodied Podcast.” Today, I have my friend, Louiza Doran with us, aka Weeze, and I have been excited to get Weeze on the podcast for over two years now. You gotta love how the divine timing works out. You’ll see when we get into the conversation, what timely things we had to discuss, which is why the podcast came to be right now. Weeze does a lot of incredible things. She is known as a coach podcast host, an advocate agent of change, social impact strategist, healing center disruptor, and anti-racism and anti-oppression educator. Just to name a couple of the amazing things that she does. Weeze is all about that liberation work by way of decolonization, anti-racism, and anti-oppression. And today we got into some current events really. We pulled apart what’s this Joe Rogan drama. If any of you are familiar with that coming up. We talked about Brene Brown a little bit, and people like her, like the Glennon Doyle’s, the Rachel Hollis’s of the world, these white ladies with these big ass platforms. We talked about the responsibility of having a big ass platform, which can mean different things to different people. And just one of my favorite things about Weeze is, you know, people throw around the word unapologetic a lot, but not a lot of people really embody unapologetic. And I just love the way Weeze embodies that. And it’s really also reflected in her own healing work, and what she has healed, how she talks about healing through the different types of work that she does. So we talk about that in the conversation as well. I hope you all love this. This is a good one to share, set it up like a book club, but a podcast club with your friends. Talk about it. And as always, we always wanna hear from you. How’d you like it? What did it bring up for you? We can be reached on Instagram, on our websites, and the show notes for this episode are at untameyourself.com/379. All right. Let’s get into it. Weeze, Weeze, Weeze, Weeze. I’m so excited. You’ve been on my list to have you on the podcast for like two years and then, but I love the divine timing of things where it was like you posted this Instagram live about some Joe Rogan drama and other things. And I was like, “Oh, now is the time” .
– Yeah, I know. I always tell people, I’m like, I have a really long list too. You’re on it, but I just haven’t recorded. I’m like at some point I’ll start recording again and then I’ll invite people, but for now, here I am.
– Here you are. All right. Before we dive in, I normally don’t have much of an agenda, but there are a couple specific things I would wanna make sure we talk about. But my opening question for everyone this year has been around, what is your relationship to God? What do you call God? If you even have a relationship to that? And I realized, I was thinking about it this morning on my walk. I actually don’t know that about you. So I’m excited. I will be learning this in the process.
– Yeah. So my relationship to God, you know, I’m one of those people where I recognize that people use the terms that are familiar and comfortable to them.
– Yes, yes.
– Right? So when someone says, God, I’m not one of those people that’s like, that’s not what I call it, you know? `Cause I’m like, I understand what you’re saying.
– Right? And because sometimes depending on who I’m talking to and the conversation, I use God, I use the universe, I use energy frequency, all of those things. My relationship is, I like to think very simple. I got here in a complicated way. I have a family that is multi-religious, so Muslim, Christian, and Jewish, all three.
– All world religions.
– All world, all the big three, right? The big world religions. That’s why I like to call them for a lot of reasons. But yeah, no. So all the world religions. So I was raised up in this kind of really cool interfaith system that had what I now know is not a “norm” like dynamic of like fully respecting each religion and understanding kind of this long lineage of what came first and how it evolved and how it birth, the next wave and so on and so forth. Then I had my own reckoning with the traditional religious structures and God, and walked away and where I am now, also through my own de colonial process and reconnecting to my own ancestral, spiritual practices. As I say that I’m a very spiritual person. I have a very deep faith in the divine. I have a very deep connection with my ancestors. I lean into them and on them and I talk to them all the time, and they guide me even right now, I’m starting to get the tingles and they’re like, ” Hey girl.” And I’m like “Hey.” You know? And you know, I like to say things that upset people sometimes just to get them thinking. So like I’ll always say, you know, there’s like a come to Jesus as a thing. Well, I’ll be like, “Oh, I’m having a come to Beyonce.” And when people say, “Why?” And I’m like , “Well, because God is a black woman.”
– Right. And then they’re like, “Wait,” you know, so, and I say that because I also do believe that God, however you believe it, or whatever you view as God, God lives in all of us. And when I think of my ancestral lineage, I think of very, very strong, I come from a matriarchal indigenous African tribes. So I think of strong women. I think of also like everything that is birthed out of the womb. And so I think of, and obviously not in a gendered way, but I think of the things that give us life and life sources, and so, Beyonce did a maternity shoot where she had a halo. And so now all I can think of is.
– I love it so much. What you’re reminding me of is my brother’s a standup comedian. And shortly after that photo shoot, he did a whole bit where he literally like laid down on the stool on the stage, pulled up his shirt, puffed out his stomach and was rubbing his belly going. “I am Beyonce. “I am the only woman that has ever been pregnant.”
– Yes. And for a moment, we all believed that until Rihanna came out with her maternity shoot, and then again, it’s like, oh, Rihanna is the only human that has ever birth a child. Like no one else matters.
– Other pregnant people are sharing, like this is more important than how many weeks I am.
– No, no, doesn’t matter.
– So funny.
– Are you Rihanna’s child? Like no.
– Don’t care then. Oh my God. I love that. Thank you so much for sharing. At this stage in your life, how do you commune with that? So this is kind of the two part question is, what do you call it? And how do you relate? You mentioned your ancestors.
– Are there any specific practices, rituals, it sounds like you kind of do it. Like I’m talking to them all the time.
– Yeah, regularly.
– I call it the divine support squad. `Cause it’s a crew.
– Yes, oh I love that.
– And depending on what’s going on and what I need, I’m like you, you, this angel, that guy. Jesus, Mary Magdalene, mother Mary and sisters.
– Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I like to use a lot of the old practices that I have been very fortunate to have some of the elders in my family pass down. So, you know, there’s a lot of sage and a lot of candles involved. I also have practices that do relate to the lunar cycles. So specifically related to the moon. I know right now, it’s really cute in like spiritual Instagram to talk about release practices or, you know, at the full moon and so on and so forth, which comes from a place. And it’s not what we’re here to talk about today, but so, you know, in kind of colloquial modern terms, I do have certain practices around that. There are certain times that you can connect to ancestors more deeply. I certainly take advantage of those, but I really honestly, truly believe that like I just sit down and I calm my spirit and I quiet my mind, sometimes I do just also call it spirit, because I do also believe in a divine “God energy” that I can’t see, I can’t touch, but I believe that it’s there. And I just call that spirit. So whether it’s spirit, whether it’s the ancestors, I just am like, who do I, to your point, who do I need right now? Who’s speaking to me? Who’s coming through is also really important.
– Yes, yes, yes.
– And opening myself up to that and then being like, okay, ancestors right now, hold on. You know, spirit got something to say or sometimes they talk together, but that became a muscle that I had to really learn to develop. There’s an incredible amount that you can learn and discern in stillness and quietness, which is again another topic for another time. But that’s really my favorite way to connect.
– I love this. Thank you so much for sharing that. And you mentioned some of this was part of your own de colonial process, which is a segue into something I’m so excited to tell you, someone on my team who is engaging with your team to get your pictures and bios and whatever, sends me this great message this morning. She’s like, `cause you know, we’re all always learning. And I asked her if I could share this, I’m not gonna use her name, but.
– She said, “Sharing for accountability “and to see if you have recommendations or needs. “I pulled some white supremacy shit “with my follow up speed regarding assets for Weeze.” And she told me, and she told me how you responded and said, your team doesn’t work on Fridays. And then your team responded and apologized for the delay. And she’s like, “It doesn’t feel right “not to acknowledge what I did, “but is that for me? `”Cause I’m representing you too.” And I’m like, this is why `cause this is one of the first things and she’s relatively new on my team. She’s been here since December. And so this is one of the things that when we onboard new people, we’re like, listen, we don’t do urgency. We’re like urgency is a function of white supremacy. So we do our best to create kind timelines, even for your interview, you were running a few minutes late, but the reason I schedule 90 minutes is `cause there’s always something, whether it’s tech shit or whatever, it gives me grace to run a few minutes late. And we never need the full 90 minutes.
– But we have breathing room and I was like, yes, I’m so proud of you. Yes, respond to them. Yes, own your shit. They will appreciate it. Tell them they didn’t owe you an apology. I was so glad. And of course it happened `cause it was your team.
– Yeah. I actually wrote that email, `cause my team, I knew they were behind `cause we’re also having some shifts in team, which you and I have talked about offline, and I just responded and I was like, “Hey, they’ll get back to you “at some point today, we don’t work on Fridays.” I wanna name that a couple years ago that’s not the response I would have given. I would’ve been really apologetic. I still would’ve been like, oh, I’m so sorry. We don’t work on Fridays. And then even in my journey, my next response, as I decolonize, would have been, if you had looked at the signature at the bottom of the email, it clearly indicates that we have a Monday through Thursday work week. `Cause you’re like, I fucking put it in there why can’t you read. Right. As you’re going through your own shit and then you get to the other side and you’re like, oh it’s okay that they missed it. It’s okay that they’re still working through their own shit. It’s okay that they responded with urgency, I’m like I can give them the fact without also then on my side being riled up and reactive about it. So it’s like now I’m obviously on the full circle, not full circle, we’re always working, but partly through some version of it.
– It’s like, oh yeah, we’re gonna get to you at some point today. We don’t work on Fridays, bye
– And it’s not a thing, but I love that. I love that. That’s awesome.
– Yeah. And I love how you shared the journey. This is how I would’ve responded a couple years ago. Then this is how, `cause we do those pendulum swings, right? So much of this, is this pendulum swinging, which again, you’re just cuing me up here with , for the perfect segues. Okay. So I really wanna get into.
– Do it.
– So I was really excited to see that you had done this live and you mentioned you were gonna talk about Joe Rogan. `Cause you’re a person, the many years ago, I kind of got hooked early on, which was like 2016, 2017. As I started to venture into my own, looking at my unconscious biases, anti-oppression, anti-racism, social justice, getting all the education and all of the things. I really got hooked into, I need to use my privilege or I need to, I had a friend who told me, as a mixed race person, you get invited into different spaces. White people will listen to you where they won’t listen to a black person or a darker person than you. And you’re welcomed into these spaces so that people invite you in means they trust you. You gotta use that responsibly. And so I would often speak up honestly out of turn where wasn’t my job, wasn’t my lane. But you know, I was trying to air quote, do the right thing for people who were listening. We’re giving that air quotes, and it often it would come kind of like you said with that little venom in it, why aren’t you guys getting this shit? You know? But it’s like, of course I didn’t get it six months ago. So, of course, who the hell knows. But anyway, so I left a relatively, it wasn’t harsh, but I left a comment. So hang on. I’m so excited. I’m realizing people need context, `cause this is something I love about the internet. We assume sometimes that people know what we’re talking about. You’re probably better at I am. You wanna give the background on the Joe Rogan thing and then I’ll mention my Brene Brown comment.
– Okay. So here’s the TLDR of Joe Rogan, and I’m not gonna go into everything I said in the video. `Cause I know we’re gonna get there.
– They could watch it. They could watch it.
– They could watch it, but also.
– We’ll link to it in the show notes.
– Here’s the thing, Joe Rogan, apparently as of late people started realizing.
– As of late.
– As of late, people started paying attention to the fact that Joe Rogan is wild at the mouth. And when I say wild at the mouth, I don’t mean in a fun, spicy way. I mean in the way where he truly says things that are deeply harmful and deeply problematic, and not just about race historically all across the board. As I said, I like made the joke in my Live. once they took that X-Factor script from him, he was like, you can get it and you can get it and you can get it. Like everybody can get it. Once he’s unscripted. And it’s been like that. But people like to pay attention, I guess when it’s convenient for them. And most importantly, once he started talking about vaccine, anti-vaccine.
– The virus. Any rightfully so people are riled up about this right now. It’s become a politicized topic. It’s deeply impacting people, but that’s why people started to pay attention. And then all of a sudden it was like, Joe Rogan doesn’t believe in science. No shit, first of all, where have you been? But, Joe Rogan doesn’t believe in science. He’s also like spewing misinformation. Again, we can get into that later, but he’s spewing misinformation. He’s saying, again, he’s wild at the mouth with some of the things that he’s saying that are deeply problematic, they’re privileged. They don’t recognize the intersections of social class and socioeconomic status and race at intersection of the pandemic and the way it’s impacting people. And so now we have to cancel him.
– And that’s where we were.
– So, what happens in the process of the cancellation is big artists, Neil young, Joni Mitchell, and some big podcasters like Brene Brown start saying, we’re gonna pull all our shit from Spotify. If Joe Rogan can be on Spotify. One of the things that I thought was so fascinating about this was like, they’ve been on Spotify with the likes of like R. Kelly and Chris brown. And it’s like, why were you cool with that?
– You don’t care about black women and fems and trans folk. I’ll say it, that’s the first thing I said. I said, y’all didn’t have a problem when it was Chris brown, Tory Lanez was shooting black women, R. Kelly was assaulting and convicted, you know, up in arms. No one said anything about the fact that several comedians, not just Bill Cosby, several comedians are allowed to use the streaming services. That didn’t matter, right? When they were transphobic, when they were, regardless. Nobody cared when it was black women and fems, when it was trans folks, when it was the queer community specifically. Da Baby is still on there. Nobody has anything to say. All these problematic little Chads and Brads running around, nobody has anything to say. These country artists who are openly racist, y’all are still there. Also, where are you gonna go? `Cause they’re on Tidal. They’re on Apple Music. They’re on YouTube music. Kanye is all over everything. where are you gonna go? Just tell me.
– So I’m writing this down, because I wanna come back to this too.
– Sorry. I get very excited.
– How you decide what platforms to engage with? `Cause it’s the same thing as politics, right? Everyone is problematic. I live in the state of Florida now. It’s a constant, double bind. `Cause while I’m not a person who’s into vaccine mandates and things like that, I want you and I are on the same page about being pro bodily autonomy. People should be able to choose what feels best to them. As long as they’re making their choices also with concern for other people, not just so they can run around and do whatever the fuck they want. So that’s cool. But our politicians who support that also support some really fucked up stuff that I could never vote for people who they support that kind of stuff. And we’re all, you know, regardless of where you live, there’s always these double binds, right? It’s like, cool. I wanna keep my crap on Spotify. Does that mean I support Joe Rogan? And this is what I love about you. You are able to get into the nuance of like that does not equal that. But what was interesting is, so someone like Brene Brown, who I was already getting agitated with Brene Brown, I had made a post about it on my private Facebook a couple weeks before this happened `cause I had listened. Someone had sent me an interview with her and Glennon Doyle and Abby and those people. And they were talking about Brene has this new book about emotions, and I to the podcast, and I was, of course there’s always gonna be some good points, but I was wildly underwhelmed because I know probably no fewer than at least 20 people who have all been on this podcast who can help people process emotions and set boundaries and talk a thousand million bazillion times better than like Brene Brown and Glennon Doyle. So that was already had me heated. And then when she made this very vague post that’s like we’re gonna be pulling our podcast indefinitely, but then didn’t explain anything. And her whole thing is like kind is clear, whatever, just pops up this vague thing. If you have over a million followers on Instagram and you pop up this vague ass thing, and you don’t turn off your comments, you know damn well what’s gonna happen. And, again, so many things we don’t know, maybe someone on her team made the posts. Maybe she didn’t, like whatever, but then so the comments were kind of a shit show. And normally I don’t get involved in this stuff anymore, but it was too juicy. I could not help myself. And so I left a comment, and you let me know that apparently someone was like, “I need to know “what Weeze thinks about Elizabeth DiAlto’s comment “on Brene Brown’s post.”
– And I wanna say very clearly, I’m making this face for the people that can see it. My face is very like, I can’t wait for Elizabeth to let me speak. Because Brene Brown and Glennon Doyle, are so irrelevant to me. And I’ve said that openly so many times for exactly the point that you said, I don’t think that they’re really all that great at what they do. I think, unfortunately, they have risen to success under the wings of mediocracy because they’re white women, and they have really good PR and marketing. Somebody take the mic from these folks. And even when they did do the take the mic like, whole thing that they did post great white awakening, that shit was mediocrity at best as well. And it was just, it’s a hot mess. I’m not knocking anybody hustle. But I say that to say, I brought this up years ago on a podcast, the two of them specifically, `cause they’re so big in the coaching wellness world. So I’ve been on record saying this, but that’s important because, one, I don’t follow Brene Brown. I didn’t even know what she had posted, because I am very, very intentional about curating my social feed. I don’t follow people that I don’t know or that I’m not directly in community with, or like need to know about the movement that they are kind of pushing forward. I had no idea what she posted. I also don’t care. I also don’t need to look at it to know that it was some, I’m gonna hide behind the guise of sounding like I’m doing the right thing. She is the definition of perception of equity without the actionability of integrity or the integrity of actionability rather. That is what she is, and y’all can come for me all day long. I’ll say this to her face. In fact, I reached out to her and Glennon Doyle and asked them to be on my podcast, because I like to invite people to speak for themselves when I’m about to talk about them, they both declined. But, I say that to say, I didn’t even need to know what you said or what, I was like, I already know that this post is probably some nonsense that’s trying to make her, it’s signaling. It’s just a signal.
– Yes, yes.
– That like, oh no, I’m really with the shit. I stand against Joe Rogan. Really? `Cause you’ve never said anything else about any of the people that we mentioned prior.
– Right? Just in this episode alone, you had no problem with the assaults against marginalized folks, but now you have a problem because everyone else has already made it okay or cool, or has shown that you can actually get some publicity off of this. You can actually benefit greatly in this moment from taking a very public stand against Joe Rogan. So that shit was for profit. And I do think that as people who have platforms, specifically as big as those, we have a responsibility to the people that follow us and that listen to us to be transparent in the reasons that we are making leadership decisions at all times. So frankly, I’m sorry. I know Elizabeth DiAlto is a human. And if Elizabeth DiAlto says something that I think is like, eh, maybe that’s misinformed or whatever, I can call her and say, “Hey boo, I saw a post. “Can we just talk about it?”
– And we can have that dialogue. And if it is some wild shit that you said, which you’ve never said anything, I mean, never that I’ve seen, but, even if it was, I know that your response is gonna be, yo, I didn’t even see that perspective. I didn’t even see that lens, I’m gonna dive into it. And then I’m actually gonna probably say something about it publicly and address it.
– So to anyone wondering about how I feel about Elizabeth DiAlto or the comment, I also don’t believe in cancel culture. So like no, clearly by being here, this is how I feel about it.
– Yeah. Well, and let me tell you what I said, `cause you .
– I would like you to read it. Yes. Well, no, you know, I did because then they responded by screenshotting to which I no longer, I’m like I’m not responding to this.
– Yeah. I don’t follow. I don’t follow Brene or Glennon anymore either. And I saw it `cause a friend of mine had shared it, and I was like, “What is this mess?” And then I went over it and I couldn’t, it was a Saturday too. I had this whole inner dialogue of like, “It’s Saturday girl, don’t do this to yourself.” And I was like, as my thumbs are already, I can’t help it.
– Kermit with the Hood was like, “Do it.”
– Also me.
– Do it.
– Me, it’s Saturday, stay out of internet drama. Also me,
– Also me,
– Make that comment.
– Do it girl.
– `Cause I was just like, wow, is this rooted in your values? Or is this a huge virtue signal? And I also really need to be honest here. I am not a Joe Rogan fan. We know this guy is a douche, and this whole pandemic people have been hollering trust the science, trust experts. And the dude is literally interviewing scientists and experts. But like you said, he is wild at the mouth. He doesn’t have a state, anything that comes from him using his platform or even spreading any misinformation, which by the way, then I went and I learned the difference between misinformation and disinformation.
– And disinformation. Exactly. One is very intentional and one’s a mistake in the moment, but .
– That’s how you remember it, right? `Cause miss is the mistake.
– And dis, that shit was on purpose.
– Exactly. Which is why I said to me, as far as I’m concerned, Joe Rogan in that moment. I think sometimes he borderlines on disinformation `cause it’s like, you knew better, but you repeated it anyways.
– But in that moment, because I don’t listen to him. I don’t subject myself to him, but I do think it’s important to listen to folks when everyone’s talking about a thing so that you can make your own informed opinion. And what I listened to was he also had a scientist on there who was like, “Actually, Joe, that’s not right.” And he was like, “I mean, “I don’t actually do any research. “I don’t know,” You know, this is the TLDR , but it’s like.
– Right, right, right.
– I didn’t do any research ahead of time. Like cool, my bad. You know what I mean?
– And let’s look it up. In that episode, it actually looks something up. So a friend of mine sent me a clip by John Stewart who was talking about that. And he was like, and ideologue, idea gog. I forget the word that John Stewart used is like, we’d never look something up in real time while. So, what I also thought was interesting was afterwards, he actually did post this response, which was like, “You know, “I gotta take better responsibility with this platform “that kind of mutated into this thing “that I never planned on having.” And the thing about even that was, here’s Joe Rogan, again, confirmed douche, but he’s doing what we’ve been begging people, especially white dudes to do. And people are still like, “Fuck this guy.” And I’m like, what do you all want? He’s actually doing what we say we want people to do. So I thought that was fascinating, but what I also.
– Oh yeah. Let’s go back. Let’s rewind to what you actually said `cause I think it’s important. `Cause I also read the comment and was like, I see no problem here.
– Right. Well, and that’s also why, one of the reasons why I watched your video, and I was like, oh, let me see if there was a problem with my comment. Because it was on my mind because, and what was cool, and I think this is just my energy. There was a sub thread of like a 100 comments on my comment, but no one was a real asshole. I had one lady being like, “He took horse medicine,” and I’m like, oh my God, this shows us you haven’t done any research. `Cause I actually a Nobel Prize winning anti-parasitic for human beings. Yes, also, like a lot of medicines that works for humans and for animals. But this is the thing of people just parroting the narrative, talking points without looking anything up. For me, even before I left the comment on Brene’s thing, I’m like, let me look up a couple things before I go saying something that I think without actually confirming a couple of things. But yeah. I was like, you know, the dude’s interviewing scientists. I did actually listen to it and it was hard. 30 minutes of one of the interviews, it was with the guy that has the nine patents for mRNA vaccines. `Cause I’m like, I mean he can’t, the dude was involved. I think there was certainly some misrepresentation. The guy’s name was Robert Malone. They were saying he invented mRNA vaccines. He was involved at the beginning of the process. But I mean that’s kind of expert status if you own patents on a thing.
– Yeah. Well. Right. My bigger thing is this with anything, not just the vaccine. Right?
– Science is a constant exploration. Whether it’s a hard science, whether for myself as a social scientist, it is a constant exploration, and this is why you don’t stop evolving in 1304 when they thought that if you, you know, blood letting was the solution to everything, right? You constantly evolve and you constantly learn. And so we have to create space in ourselves for two things, multiple things to be true at once. But for one, what we know today to be able to change tomorrow, especially when you do have the pressure of a global pandemic requiring scientists to bear down and start getting into mutations and the way that this particular virus is mutating. So an expert can say one thing on Monday and they get test results back on a Friday. And whatever they said on Monday, which now has gone to air is absolutely completely no longer “the truth.” But it was the truth based on what we knew at that time. So that’s one. Two, let’s also be real. There’s a lot of different camps that are very interested in supporting different things and you can get experts. Nothing comes without some sort of bias. You can get an expert to interpret, that’s why we call it an interpretation of data, I’m getting real nerdy on my science folks. It’s an interpretation of data, whether it’s the hard science or a social science, it is an interpretation. It is up to the person conducting the study. So I can do a study on whatever social experiment and Elizabeth, you can do the exact same study and based on whatever, we might have slightly varying outcomes, because we are the ones interpreting the data, even though the data is a hard set.
– And also, people are greedy and money. And if you pay somebody to find a certain outcome, they will find it. If you go online and Google is coffee good for me, guess what, I can find 10 articles because I’m a coffee drinker to say, absolutely girl enjoy, but keep it to three cups. I can also find, you know, shout out to .
– It’s gonna destroy your adrenals.
– Exactly. Stop drinking it. Like what, you know what I mean? So.
– So that’s why it’s also important to be open to listening, to varying perspectives and varying sources without any sort of emotional reactivity. Are you listening just so that you can wild out on the internet and react with a sound bite, per my most recent post, right? It’s okay not to say anything. And frankly, some of y’all should stop fucking saying things based on the sound bites and the headlines that you read, because you’re in consuming, I’m being serious. You’re consuming information just so that you can view off on the internet versus consuming information to really find an expansion of your thinking and your understanding.
– Yeah. Yeah.
– Because, guess what? We still don’t fucking know.
– We still don’t know.
– We don’t know.
– There’s so much we don’t know. And this is a place where I have a lot of compassion, even for people who see things wildly differently than I do. And in some cases, some people are just wrong. Some people are wrong and their views are fucked up and that’s fine.
– To acknowledge that that is a possibility and that happens. There’s a spectrum.
– Right, like the vaccine does not have a microchip in it. That’s actually not possible. I wanna be very clear. There’s some stuff that is just truly not true. That’s not true. How. That one really gets me.
– I know, that one gets me too.
– I’m like, oh yeah, you’re tracking me on my phone anyways, so fuck it.
– Listen. There’s no privacy. If you thought you had privacy, what planet do you live on? You have any device, and you think you have privacy. If you walk around on any regular street, have you ever seen a crime show? Facial recognition, all the security. There’s no privacy. Which is what I love about. It’s just having integrity is actually such a convenient choice, because you just say things that you’re cool with people screenshotting on the internet and sharing with your friends, and being like, “Ooh, what do you think about this?” And I’m like, I post I posted it publicly. I know how Instagram works. I know that if you follow me and you follow Brene Brown, you will see my comment, and that was fine with me. The hell.
– But act, it’s gonna be the first one that comes up.
– Even if I don’t follow Brene brown. If I go to Brene Brown.
– Oh my God.
– Elizabeth DiAlto.
– So funny. So wait, okay. Let me come back.
– I knew this would be so fun and also hilarious with you. But this thing, this is an embodiment thing. This is something we talk about with emotional maturity and emotional intelligence, is like being able to hold many things at once. And so much of what’s unfolded in the pandemic is quite paradoxical, or is laden with these double binds. Well, this is good for everyone else, but this actually really harms me.
– So it’s like, we’re constantly having to choose what feels like the best possible choice out of a lot of shitty choices, which is basically what it is to live in the United States of America every day.
– Well, this is the thing that I honestly, again, as a social scientist, I’m just fascinated watching everyone in the last couple years, specifically, because, you know, anytime you create social environments that effectively cause a social pressure cooker, people expose all of their truest selves, even if it is something that they, you know, maybe aren’t too proud of whatever, right? There’s just a lot happening also asterisks on that. It is also very traumatizing and very triggering. And we are actually still living in a constant state of trauma. And we do not know the long term effects, whether you’ve had COVID or not, that this particular state of being is going to cause on our nervous systems, on our emotional systems, so on and so forth. That’s a really important thing to note, we just don’t know what those impacts are gonna be. Right? That being said, we have always lived in a, I call it the lesser of the evils society. Whether you are fully or partially, or even not marginalized at all, you have to constantly weigh. Is this good for me or not? What is the least harm that is going to be caused? And also, what am I willing to deal with? Because what I am willing to withstand is not what you’re willing to withstand is not what somebody else is willing to withstand. And so it’s also high time people mind their fucking business, drink your water and mind your business. Because what it’s good for me might not be good for you, but if I’m not causing harm and I’m very intentionally navigating the world with an intention to be able to not only reduce my harm impact, but try to protect others as much as I can where my privilege allows, then why do you care what I do with my body or what choices I make for myself. We see this a lot, even in simple ways. In ways that we, I should say subtle, they’re never simple, subtle. You know, you’ll see arguments of students who are historically marginalized based on a various right, like social identities. Their parent has an opportunity to “right the busing system,” like send them a little further outside of their community to go to a private school or to have accessibility to better education, that creates conflict. And it’s like, well, why, right? Why are you demonizing a family for being able to provide better education for their child? Even if it does mean that, you know, maybe they are a black or brown and they’re going to an all white school, you know what, maybe they’ve realized that. And maybe they’re just gonna make sure that every day when their kid comes home, they’ve got indigenous African or Puerto Rican or indigenous American lessons. If they’re gonna teach ’em on top of it, they’re like, yeah, we’re gonna send them to school. And the history is going to be super whitewashed. And so we’re gonna combat that at home, but we can deal with this and this still is a better situation for our child. Instead though, from the outside, it’s like, “Oh, you sold out, you’re sending your kid to this school,” blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. “What education are they gonna get? “They’re not gonna be with the culture.” What, what, and I mean, I bring that up because that’s one that people can, like everyone has seen in some way, some way shape or form. And we can relate to that. And I make it an everyday example because it doesn’t have to do with the now that’s actually the society that we live in.
– Yeah. Yeah.
– But again, why does that matter?
– Right. Why isn’t anyone else’s business? You know, it’s really interesting. I’ve been thinking about this a lot since I came to Miami. One of the reasons I moved here was to be around my own people, like Caribbean Latin people and get to be immersed in that culture. Because something that had happened in my own family is when my mom and my dad were dating, my dad’s family would speak Spanish in front of my mom and she was the only person who couldn’t communicate in Spanish. She could understand some and she asked a lot to be included, but she also didn’t make any effort to learn the language and participate. And so we didn’t. My dad did not teach us Spanish growing up, which has been such a pain point for me, because we could have learned. When you teach just, I guess brain wise, I’ve heard from people that it’s actually not true, that it’s easier to learn the language when you’re a little kid. But I think where it is, maybe if it’s not brain wise, time wise, it is .
– That’s what I was gonna say. It’s just the immersion. And also the ability to continuously practice.
– Exactly, exactly.
– That’s really what it is.
– I mean, I understand a lot and I’m very self-conscious about speaking, and that’s very emotional for me. And something that I’ve been unpacking about that even I’m here Miami, I could practice with everyone everywhere, everyone in my building, everyone at the lake, everyone, everywhere, practically I could be practicing and I catch myself not wanting to speak.
– And I’m like, wow. And then I have to process the resentment around the choices my family made, but also like I get it. I get it from my mom’s perspective, not wanting to be sitting for hours at a family function, not knowing what the hell people are talking about.
– And, you know, whatever stories about thinking people did it on purpose or not. Maybe they did, I don’t know. But there’s so much to unpack for people who were dealing with multiculturalism or mixed blended families ethnically, or race wise that like, it’s just what you said, mind your business. Or if you’re not gonna mind your business, then don’t mind your business, but do that in the form of curiosity instead of fucking judging people and condemning people.
– Yeah. I mean, I always tell people like lead with curiosity, when people ask me they’re like, “How can you sit and have conversations “with people who you know have different value sets “than you.” And I’m like, `cause I lead with curiosity. Now I might come away from that conversation and being like, I don’t think that we are values aligned, and frankly I don’t like you as a human. But again, is it because they just have a different value set or is it because they have a different value set and then they use all resources or political systems and infrastructures to shove that value set down everybody else’s throat and control everyone else’s lives accordingly.
– Right? But are you gonna find out if you just sit in your corner and holler at everybody on the internet through tweets? No, you’re not. There’s a lot that you can learn about yourself and there’s a lot that you can actually develop in terms of skillset by leading with curiosity. I actually developed my skillset of nuance and grace because I’ve always been very inquisitive. You remember “Curious George.”
– That’s what my parents used to call me as a child. They were like, “This child.” Cause I would just be.
– Curious George.
– Yes, I was curious George. I was all up in the mix. There would be things happening, and I’m very thankful that because I was inquisitive in the way that I was inquisitive, I didn’t have adults that would do the thing of like this is grown folks business, we’re not gonna talk to you. Shout out to the community that raised me. It was very much like, “Okay, we’re gonna explain this to you “on an age appropriate level.” Right? So I had the benefit because of that, of being able to grow up, always feeling it’s okay to ask questions, whether you don’t understand or whether you’re just like, I disagree with that fundamentally. But instead of it being an immediate debate, I’m gonna be like, tell me more. Why do you think that? Why do you this? Why do you that? So on and so forth. And I’m actually bringing it back to the vaccination issue, right? I’ve had some very profoundly interesting conversations with folks who believe differently than we do, of like do what you want with your body, as long as you’re also conscientious of how it impacts others, right? I feel that’s just how you should live your life in general, but that’s just me, obviously, right? My opinion. Folks who are like, no, the vaccine is all these bad things, and it’s da, da, da, da, da, and it’s blah, blah, blah. And I’m like, cool. Well, where did you learn that? Could you point me into that direction? Where did you hear that? Well, is there any science? And again, you know, not saying that science is the only way to learn things and the only thing that makes something valid, but is there science that shows that? Is there this? Is there that? And then even in their own exploration of having to tell you all of these things, they’re like, “Oh, shit. I have no clue.
– Most people don’t go, “Oh, shit I don’t know.”
– They try to talk around that they don’t fucking know.
– But I also wonder, so this is my kind of social experiment right now is like, some people are just like that. So let’s put, right, let’s just say that. Some people are just like, “Fuck that. “I know what I know. “I’m always right. “I’m gonna talk around it.” But my social experiment right now is depending on how I ask the questions and what space I create initially. Is it actually my responsibility to be mindful of the way lead with curiosity.
– To create a space that leaves people open enough to say, to get to the point of being like, I don’t know. Not initially putting them in a defensive space and making it a process of curiosity. I’ve actually seen people who I would’ve thought would’ve basically been like, “Fuck you. “I said what I said,” be like. And I’m like. I’m a rational logical person. And I’m kind of hearing myself in this moment and I don’t sound like I know what I’m talking about. And I actually can’t tell you where I read it. Don’t know why I think that. Shit, I actually don’t have a good answer for you. And then my response is always, “Cool. “Well, go do some reading, go, you know, “dive in and then let’s have this conversation again.”
– And sometimes they come back and they’re like, “Yeah.” So I’m gonna get on your wave of like, do what you want with your body. And just as long as it doesn’t hurt people, and I’m gonna start wearing a mask, even though I still don’t believe in vaccinations or whatever. And I’ve been genuinely blown away. Now, I’m not saying that’s gonna be everybody’s experience. I also wanna name that this is not just in California, `cause people to do that like, “You’re in California. “And like everybody,” let’s be clear California presents blue in the voting polls and in public and in the street signs, and in the lawn signs, but clutches their pearls red.
– I lived in Malibu. I joined Nextdoor.
– No, I could have told you not to do that.
– Whew. If anyone is not familiar with this Nextdoor app, do not join it. If you wanna think that you live near decent human beings. And of course, Malibu was obviously a very wealthy area. When I moved there, I just hadn’t realized that Malibu was to California what the Hamptons are to New York.
– I had no business living in Malibu. And I was just like, oh my God. I got in a Facebook group with one lady. This was a couple years ago. So I wasn’t leading with curiosity. I was leading with you stupid bitch. You know, not exactly like that, but the way they were talking about homeless people, I was like, you guys from your mansions with your gates, and you’re upset that on your way to Whole Foods, you have to see someone sitting on a bench that you don’t know when they had to, like get outta here. I couldn’t. But I appreciate this because while it is and my always intention and practice to lead with curiosity, I have a real hard time. Actually, let me ask you about this.
– I know you’re also a very intuitive person. And so sometimes I just know, sometimes I’m like, I don’t know that this is gonna be worth my energy and I could just tell, and I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but I’ve given a lot of people unearned benefits of the doubt over the years, but you’re reminding me it is better to set the tone, especially when you you’re someone who is like communication is part of your profession.
– And you’re likely a better communicator than most people you’re communicating with. I do think there’s a responsibility that comes with that. And sometimes I’m like, I don’t wanna be responsible. I want this person to shut the fuck up .
– Yeah. I mean, let’s be very clear. I can lead with curiosity, and within the first three curious questions be like, “Oh cool.” `Cause I am intuitive. I’m both intuitive and an empath. So I can even just by asking the questions sometimes I can start to feel.
– The way that their energy is turning.
– This is gonna go. Yeah.
– And I’m like, “Hmm, do I have capacity for this?”
– No. Right? And again, that’s where the responsibility does lay with me. I believe it lays with me to be really, really mindful. This is why embodiment practices are so important to be really mindful of what is my body telling me right now? My body is actually telling me I don’t need to be having this conversation, right?
– Do not do this.
– I don’t need to engage in this, because I also come from a space where I am not required to speak to anyone ever. Being that I have a podcast and a platform and people are, you know, speaking is part of my profession, people have this false notion that I’m required to enter into conversation with them or respond to them or speak to them or acknowledge the nonsense that they say simply because I have a platform. I’m not, I’m really not. And certainly depending on how you either address me, demand my time, and or respond to initial curiosity, you’re going to tell me very quickly whether, one, you’re going to respect my boundaries, respect the fact that I’m leading with curiosity, respect and return. Right, so right reciprocal relationship, even just energetically, like return the energy that I’m giving you. You’re gonna let me know that. And when somebody shows you who they are, believe `em baby. Now, I’m not gonna tell you that you’re a trash human and blah, blah. Right? But I am gonna say, and this is my go-to all the time. “I no longer want to be having this conversation with you.” That’s it. I don’t owe you an explanation. I don’t have to say anything beyond that. Now, if we are truly in community, then I might add, “And when I am ready to explain why or should “you feel like you need that explanation “then we can circle back later. “But in this moment I don’t have capacity for this. “I’m out.” Right?
– But if I’m not even immunity with you, and you’re a rando on, `cause I sit on panels and sometimes panelists wanna argue with you, and I’m like, “Hi down there. “No, no, no, no.” Also take the base out of your voice before you address me. Right? Because I’m being very respectful. And again, it’s like, what are you giving me back? I’m giving you respect and grace and humanity, and you’re so emotionally reactive by the fact that I’m just asking you where you got that information. Now you’re being wild disrespectful. No, I don’t have to sit here and engage in this. So again, multiple things can be true at once. I can lead with curiosity and provide grace and create the space for people to not be reactive and explore their own thinkings and dive into it. That doesn’t mean that everybody’s gonna meet me there. I can set up the perfect field, right?
– It can be picturesque. If you build it, they will come. I could build all the right things. Was that “Field of Dreams?” I think the movie was. And they could come and light that bitch up. You know what I mean? Like light it on fire. Like frankly, I built it. I put a lot of work into this. I’d like you not to burn it to ashes.
– You’re not doing that.
– So you’ve gotta go. Like both of those things can happen.
– Yeah. Last year I decided actually it was around, again, another thing I couldn’t help myself, I had to weigh in. There was a Rachel Hollis. I think you all did a whole podcast about this, didn’t you?
– Listen, baby. We did a podcast the first time, I did a whole video the second time, which time are we referring to?
– You’re like which one? Actually, by the way, we’re coming up on the time of year when she does this.
– She does. I know.
– It’s like March. It’s like March when she decides.
– She’s about to launch something, she does it. Right before her launches.
– It’s like a marketing strategy. So it’s been two years in a row. I actually made a mental note. I’m so glad this just came up. `Cause we’ll pay attention all of March, April and see if she’s launching something. If she does something intentionally inflammatory to like start a big thing.
– That’s what she does.
– Oh my God.
– And I noticed it last year, which is why I’m like this year if she does it, I’m not doing a whole breakdown, but you are, what I’m gonna do is exactly that, we could do it together. It’s like, let me tell you, this is actually.
– This is a .
– She’s using harm and problematicness and conflict and confrontation and the sociopolitical tension.
– For profit, which actually makes you extra harmful.
– It’s harmful. An evil genius basically.
– Gas lighting. I was just gonna say you are a gas lighting genius.
– But, anyways, yes, it’s coming, a 100%.
– It’s coming,
– But yes, so you commented.
– But around that time, so I wrote a post about that. But my post from a healing perspective, `cause I’m better at staying in my lane now, after years of fucking around outside my lane and paying the price, was like, listen, from a healing perspective, we need to stop giving platforms to people who clearly need therapy. To people who need to do their work. Rachael Hollis is not okay. I’m not over here be like excusing her. I’m over here being like, why does this person have this platform anyway? And a couple of this whole conversation erupted because you know how it goes on the internet where you talk about one thing and people are like, “Well, why aren’t you talking about the racism?” And I’m like, `cause that’s not my lane to talk, that’s inherent. Yes. That yes. This is the other thing. We also get to talk about one thing at a time.
– But through that thread, there was a whole thing. That’s when I decided I’m like, I’m not engaging with passive aggressive communication. People’s intentional vagueness and evasiveness, any kind of manipulation or nastiness, or just straight up, like I don’t need to engage with that. And it’s fine. `Cause I added an addendum to the post. I’m like, “Listen, “if this is how you wanna engage in this conversation, “you will not be getting a response. “I’m not gonna delete your shit, “but you will not be getting a response.” And someone told me I was tone policing and I’m like, I honestly don’t care if you yell in my face, that’s tone. I’m talking about emotionally abusive, manipulative communication, being passive aggressive. And if I have to sift through what you’re saying and coaxed you to even understand what you’re talking about, I’m gonna get paid for that.
– Yeah. My favorite thing to do with people, because I actually do work in a field. My lane is.
– This is your lane.
– This is my lane. So when people try to use that shit against me, again, leading with curiosity also doesn’t mean it doesn’t have an underlying of petty, because I am still who I am. So people will say that shit to me when I set a boundary around like how I’m gonna engage, or how people are allowed to engage with each other in the comments. And they’re like, “This is a public forum.” No, it’s not baby. It’s not, it’s not. Go to Reddit. I don’t know what to tell you.
– But they’ll be like tone policing. Oh, can you please define that for me? I think I must not understand what you mean. What do you mean by that? Define tone policing. You can’t even define it for me, or you go to Google and then you copy paste it and then I’m like, cool. Even what you copy pasted, it is still not what’s happening. Can you please explain to me in the above statement, how you feel as though that definition matches what’s actually happening right here.
– You know, or they’ll say something to your point that like, I’m like, what this makes no sense. So then it just happened under my, I think it was, I posted a post that was like the actual expert, like a PHD.
– I love that. I shared that one.
– And then it was like the article and then how to find it. And my whole point was like, I’m not a fucking expert on the Soviet Union and Ukraine. What I do know is imperialism and colonization as basic structures. So I can talk about the US, how the US, from a sociopolitical global tactic, fine. But I am not, I cannot, that’s not my job. That’s not my lane, but you know, this is, and this was really useful for me. So somebody came in with a whole bunch of nonsense and my response was, “Are you either, one, from the region “two, are you a studied expert in the field, “three, a journalist who has covered this “for X amount of time or whatever.” And they responded, they were like, “No, but like you, I’m not an expert, “but I do a lot of reading and research.” I said, “Wonderful. “What are your primary sources?” So they posted all their resources. I very quickly found out that I realized they were a troll bot, `cause these troll bots are getting more elevated, because every single one I very quickly vetted, and they were all just Fox News times 15.
– That was my response was like, “You should vet your sources more carefully.” And then they’re like whatever. So normally I leave that stuff up too. But then once I realized it was a troll bot who just quickly responded with nonsense.
– Yeah, yeah.
– And was inflammatory, like fine I blocked them. But I say that to say like the reason that those troll bots exist and can do that so successfully is `cause they’re mimicking the real life behavior that it has learned from the way that we’ve been engaging with each other over the last few years.
– Yeah. Yeah.
– Y’all just out here wiling and have no idea what you’re talking about.
– This is why I love your piece and your emphasis. And I’ve taken a page outta your book as they say around like, if you’re in community with me. `Cause every once in a while. And what’s so interesting is how much time we spend talking about how people behave on social media. Because especially during the pandemic times, this has been a lot of people’s primary way of interacting with others.
– And so we have to talk about it.
– Which I find agitating, but also a important. But I love how you’re like, you know, if we’re in community together, there’s so many, we’ve had our platforms for so many years. There’s so many people when they leave a comment or sending a DM, I don’t know who you are, I know who you are, but I know who you are.
– Yeah. Yep.
– Right? And if you’re just rolling up on my shit and I’ve never seen you before, I’m first gonna be like, “Hi, it seems like you might be new here.”
– This is not how, I had a woman several weeks ago leave a comment. I wrote something about like, it’s not fat phobic to want to lose weight for your own personal reasons.
– And someone was like, that literally is fat phobia. And she left her comment with her opinion or whatever, and then said left another comment to be like, “And I fully expect to be argued with and blocked.” And I responded and I was just like, “Thanks for sharing your take. “And no, that’s not how we roll here. “That’s not happening.”
– But I’m like, but this is how people expect. But again, she also was kind of expecting it `cause she knew she was coming in saying something that was like, you’re not trying to be in community either.
– You just kinda drop your shit and be like, “And I’m sure you’re gonna block me.”
– Well, no we’re not. And if you were in community with us here, even on this social platform, you would know that that’s not how we roll.
– Right. And you would know that, at least in my realm, the only people that get blocked are the ones who are truly attacking people. `Cause that happens, right? You are not a safe, whether you’re a bot or a real person, you’re not a safe profile. And I can’t watch the comments all the time,
– To make sure. So it’s like, I actually just need to block you for the safety of the people that I am in community with. Right?
– But outside of that, you don’t have to agree with me, but you will disagree respectfully.
– Yeah. Yeah.
– You know what I mean? We don’t have to have the same opinion, but you will engage with humanity. Those are the rules. You can’t do that. I’m just gonna ignore you.
– Yeah. Yeah. Is there anything, I know we’re wrapping up, Is there anything I didn’t ask you that you were like, damn I was hoping we would talk about this. I know we got to the juicy stuff, but I mean, there’s always, we could have 17 podcast conversations and there would still be more.
– I think the only thing that, you know, I really wanna name again, just in case people don’t go to the video and watch the whole thing with regards to Joe Rogan or Brene Brown or whoever the people that we’ve named. Rachel Hollis is, we have to stop pretending like we haven’t seen the signals all along.
– We have to stop pretending people haven’t shown us where their values lie, where their platform, what their platform is used for the entire time. And you know, joining bandwagons of protest, because they seem profitable or like “the now thing to do,” because I said it in the video and I’ll say it until the end of time, people like Joe Rogan have always been wild at the mouth. He has been misogynistic, transphobic, Islamophobic, I mean racist, like all of the things. So I have never supported Joe Rogan. I’m never going to support Joe Rogan, or anyone, and I’m using him now as kind of like the filler, because he’s still the hot topic, right? But I’ve known that, because he’s always let us know where he stand. Now, that being said, this is why I don’t believe in cancel culture, because if I just canceled Joe Rogan, then the moment he does post something like you know what, I’m hella reckless out here with my platform. And it wasn’t until I started seeing, you know, that this moment, whatever it was for wherever he’s at in his life, this is the moment that made me realize that words matter. And that the way that I use this platform matters. And it is actually maybe not an accurate representation of what I believe and who I am as a human, and I need to be more mindful. That’s what I took away from what he said. Obviously those are not his exact words.
– But when somebody says that to you, what they’re signaling is that they are open and receptive to doing better and to learning and to evolving. `Cause Joe Rogan could have easily said, Fuck y’all I make a whole lot of money. I don’t need to apologize. I don’t need to do shit differently. You know, racial slower, racial slower, racial slower, transphobia, like you could have just kept throwing it at us and been like the people that listen and pay me, listen and pay me. If you don’t like it, fuck off.
– Most people do that.
– And by the way, in the comments on that post, on that video he did, do you know how many people were in the comments being like, “You don’t need to apologize, Joe, who gives a fuck, “blah, blah, blah, blah. “You should be able to say the N word, you should.” I was like. So like literally, and that confirms what you’re saying, he would’ve lost nothing.
– He would’ve lost nothing. And so for me now, again, this is not how everybody operates in the world.
– You don’t have to be willing to then sit down with him. If Joe Rogan’s team was like “Weeze, we heard that this is the work that you do. “We heard that you actually hold grace and space “for people’s humanity “and you believe in redemption culture. “And you know, if somebody signals that they wanna evolve, “you’re willing to get into it with them. “Would you come guide him, talk to him, teach him?” Absofuckinglutely, I would. Because what I know is that all of those people that are in the comments saying, “You don’t have to apologize. “Fuck the science. “All lives matter.” Fuck this, fuck that whatever, they’re listening to him. So if he now does a podcast, I don’t even have to be on it. He doesn’t have to tell anybody that he’s even worked with me quite frankly. But if he does a next podcast or a next show and says, “You know what y’all, I fucked up. “This is not okay. “I’m doing my own work.” Do you know how many people’s minds that he gets into that I can’t reach, because they’re not ready and willing to listen to me because they’ve already decided it’s adversarial?
– Right. So when somebody says, “Yeah, that’s my bad, “I’m gonna do better. “And then I’m gonna use my platform to share my experience “of how we all need to do better, “or we need to do things differently or it wasn’t okay.” You know what? I’m willing to sit down with those people, because I know good and well, I say this all the time, Weeze pretherapy decolonization, and a lot of things was a fucking menace. This is not the person that you’re talking to now. Right? I mean, burn it down, you versus me. I’m not gonna lose mentality for a lot of reasons, trauma life, whatever. But to your point, this is why people who haven’t done their healing should not have platforms, because those people, right. Weeze 10 years ago with a platform, even though I’m still fighting the same fight, I would’ve galvanized people in a way that only further separated us and divided us and didn’t know how to honor people’s humanity. Didn’t know how to create space, was full of cancel culture, and was just continuing to spew resentment and normalizing that.
– Right? Same message today, same work, but from a very healed, decolonized, grounded perspective.
– And liberatory.
– This is why I love you.
– Exactly. And it’s all about everyone’s liberation. I actually don’t care what social identity you hold. We are all confined. We are all shackled.
– Because we’re living in a system that is meant to control us for a variety of reasons.
– That is something I appreciated so much. I did work in 2018 with Dr. T and Desiree Adaway, and they’re both firmly rooted in liberatory consciousness and those practices. And once I learned that, I was like, oh, this is my discernment. I no longer engage with folks who are doing any kind of social justice, anti-racism anything, if I don’t see that they’re doing it in a liberatory way. And a lot of people are not.
– A lot of people are not. And I’m like, that’s just,
– That’s you.
– And again, just like you said, I don’t need to be like, oh fuck that. But I’m like, I’m not gonna get in line with that.
– If that’s how you wanna do it, if that’s where you’re at in your journey, that’s cool. But this is how I operate over here.
– And you can get down with me and you’re always welcome. Even if you were doing it for years and years and years differently before, or you weren’t doing it at all, that’s fine. But when you’re ready to rock from here, I also promise you it’s a much more peaceful, joyous, centered place to be. But when you’re ready, like cool arms open.
– You know, and I truly mean this because I have sat across from very blatant, openly public white supremacists in the South and done this work with them, and had them “come across the aisle.” Right? And so when people are like, you, this, or you that I’m like, “You don’t know me. ‘And also you don’t know the work I’ve done “and I don’t have to convince you of a fucking thing.”
– Yeah. Amen.
– So that’s probably just my last little gem drop, my truth nugget for people. That I think is just super important to remember, would you be proud of all the things you did 10, 15 years ago before you started healing?
– I was just talking about this with, my podcast episode that came out yesterday at the time we’re recording this. One of the things I mentioned is I self-published a book in 2015 and I hate that book. I hate that book. I’m getting my website redone right now. And she’s like, “You wanna put the book in your shop?” I’m like, “No, no, I do not.” If people stumble upon it on the internet, because that’s how the internet works, bless them. But no, I don’t need to be putting seven years ago me intentionally back out into the world.
– Right. You know, and I mean, and I think that’s just like, if people don’t walk away from this episode with anything else, it’s just that reminder of like, you have to give yourself the grace for your own evolution and who you are now as you learn and heal, and the same grace that you want from other people, as you stumble through your path is the grace that you should give other people, which is why reciprocity is such a big thing to me. Because when you get to this place, you can say things like I was totally fat phobic. Not in terms of how I treated other people.
– Because I’ve never been that person. But my relationship to me, years and years ago, being an athlete, being a boxer. Right? And I worked out and the way I ate for all the, my body was banging, but it was for all the wrong reasons.
– Now, I would like to lose weight, because it’s been three years in a pandemic, and I physically in my own skin wanna feel a certain kind of way.
– Right? But if it doesn’t happen tomorrow, it’s okay. And if it doesn’t ever again.
– shit to get there.
– Exactly. And you know what? I ate Cinnaholic last night, these vegan cinnabuns, and it was amazing. And I enjoyed every morsel of it, knowing all of the calories and all of the things. So even in terms of that, if you start to focus on your own mindset, and this is at liberatory work, if you start to focus on your own shit, how did you even look at your self yesterday? What is your relationship to all the isms directed internally? If you can liberate yourself, I promise you inherently become part of everyone else’s liberatory journey.
– And that’s my lane.
– That’s my lane.
– So this is why I say, mind your business,
– Mind your fucking business.
– Mind your fucking business. Okay. That’s it. Because if I keep talking, we’ll be here for another 17 episodes.
– So great. I love you. Where do you wanna send people? I think everyone should follow you on Instagram @accordingtoweeze, W-E-E-Z-E, which is short for Louiza, which they will know from the intro anyway.
– Yes. You know, I tell everyone right now, just because I’ve got all sorts of fun things cooking, my foundation just got off the ground. Yeah. Thank you. So I tell everyone, follow me on Instagram, subscribe to the newsletter. I do a lot of free education through the newsletter, because it doesn’t get shadow banned or blocked, or, you know, it isn’t kind of faced with all the stuff that happens on Instagram. So a lot of my free education is actually there. And then from there, you know, you can learn about, I call it The Academy. It’s like Patreon, but I do it through Teachable. So I have more control and autonomy over it.
– But, you know, just come and be in community and learn. Even if you’re just curious about like, what is liberatory work like?
– Yes, yes.
– You can start honestly, at like five bucks a month. I did that very intentionally, just come get down for a couple bucks a month. And if you’re like, “Oh, I hate her. “Never again.” Cancel. I mean, I doubt that’ll happen, but yeah, no. So Instagram, the newsletter, The Academy.
– You’re probably gonna love me, but.
– And I’m kind of awesome.
– That’s okay. `Cause I love me, but you can go.
– Yeah, and there’s other people, it’s fine.
– Always people that’ll be right. There’s somebody else that’ll be right for you.
– All right. Cool. So we’ll link up to all that stuff. Thank you so much. We’ll have you back. There’s some people like Trudy’s gonna come back on for the third time to talk about the book.
– I know I have to . I’m actually going to start rerecording just so we can do an episode about her book. `Cause everybody needs to know about it.
– Great. This is what we do. This is what it is to be in community with people.
– Right. Absolutely.
– You show up for your people. All right. I will talk to you soon. Thank you so so much everyone listening.
– Thank you.
– Share it up. This is a great, there’s certain episodes where I’m like, listen to this with your people. Talk about these points. Notice where you feel uncomfortable. Be like, ooh, Ooh. This is a great one. Listen more than once. Pull it apart. Send us messages as long as you’re coming correct .
– Right. Right.
– Now that we’ve had this whole conversation about what that looks and how that works. So, all right. We’ll talk later.
– `Cause I will leave you on read. Bye .
– See you later.