Do you know the true source of your healing?

Healing doesn’t come from a pill or a vial. It’s not even your coach or your mentor. No, your greatest source of healing comes from within, from your own medicine.

In today’s episode, I’m chatting about healing with indigenous medicine woman Asha Frost about her book You Are The Medicine.

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As a medicine woman, Asha guides others through their healing journeys, helping them decolonize their thoughts and understand the signs they receive from the universe.

But a huge part of what she does is guide her clients to see their own power and facilitate their own healing.

Join me in today’s episode as I chat with Asha about becoming your own medicine and connecting with your inner self. She’s talking about the process of decolonization and how to broach the topic with others, especially children and older generations. Plus, she’s sharing the value of connecting with your own ancestors and implementing their teachings in your spiritual journey.

Listen to episode 380 now!

In episode 380 of the Embodied Podcast we discuss:

  • [2:53] Asha’s relationship with Creator and how her indigenous heritage influences her connection to the divine
  • [5:06] Becoming your own medicine and finding your inner power to heal
  • [8:24] What is homeopathy and why so many people resist healing in their own lives
  • [12:38] Animal medicine and connecting with animals in dreams
  • [18:15] Finding balance as you guide your clients and sometimes letting them guide themselves
  • [21:50] Undergoing personal decolonization and why it’s a lifelong process
  • [27:20] How to avoid performative activism, especially on social media
  • [30:59] How to teach children about land acknowledgement and generational trauma
  • [32:20] Connecting and teaching older generations while being mindful of their unique experiences
  • [36:24] Generational trauma and how Asha experiences it in her own life
  • [41:32] Lateral violence among people and its roots in colonialism
  • [47:47] Practicing reverence for other cultures’ teachings and connecting with your own ancestors
  • [55:28] Connecting with the Moon and working with its cycles
  • [57:13] Reconciling your spiritual journey with your day-to-day life and family responsibilities

Resources mentioned by Elizabeth in the episode:

    Quotes from this week’s episode on healing: 

    • “I’m always really clear that the ancestors are watching. There’s witnesses right in rooms and even like all of creation is witnessing. So as you speak, and even if that person doesn’t take it in or hear you and it just goes right by this plant is hearing it, you know that the wind is hearing it.” [00:34:11] Asha

    How was this episode for you?


    Was this episode helpful for you today? I’d love to know what quote or lesson touched your soul. Let me know in the comments below OR share the episode on Instagram, tag me your stories @elizabethdialto, or send me a DM!


    About the Embodied Podcast with Elizabeth DiAlto


    Since 2013 I’ve been developing a body of work that helps women embody self-love, healing, and wholeness. We do this by focusing on the four levels of consciousness – physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual.

    In practical terms, this looks like exploring tools and practices to help you tune into the deep wisdom of the body and the knowing of the heart, which I believe are gateways to our souls. Then we cultivate a new relationship with our minds that allows the mind to serve this wisdom and knowledge and soul connection, rather than override it, which is what many of us were taught.

    If you’ve been doing self-help or spiritual development work for a while, these are the types of foundational things that often people overlook in pursuit of fancier concepts that often aren’t practical or sustainable. Here, we will focus on building these strong foundations so you can honestly and thoroughly embody self-love. If you’re feeling it, subscribe to the show, and leave us a review wherever you listen from. You can also keep up with show updates and community discussion on Instagram here.


    Transcripts for Episode 380:

    – Hello, everybody, welcome to episode number 380 of the Embodied Podcast. Today, our guest is Asha Frost, and Asha is one of these people who I’ve been orbiting around online for a couple years now, but we’ve never connected before voice to voice or face to face. So this is a fun conversation, cause I was also getting to know her as we went. Asha is an enrolled member of Cape Croaker first nation. She’s an indigenous medicine woman, spiritual mentor, ceremonial speaker, and author. And her book, we get into her book a little bit here because it’s called You are the Medicine and right around the time that this interview goes live, the book will have been out just recently so it’s exciting. Check that out. She also has an Oracle deck coming out in 2023 and she believes wholeheartedly in the power within to heal our bodies, our spirits and our lives. And I love this. Her spirit name is she who walks with the Thunderbirds and as a member of the Crane Clan, her facilitation style empowers, uplifts and inspires with grace and deep love and you all know those things are absolutely my jam. So enjoy the episode. The show notes can be found at and let’s get into the show. Asha, how are you?

    – I’m good, it’s so nice to see you.

    – You too, and people listening to the show like fairly often actually guests or people I know either quite well personally, or I’ve been like deep into their work. And so this is gonna be a fun interview because we’re neither of those things. This is kind of like a get to know you, but like I’ve been circling around your stuff. I feel like it’s for years now and you’ve this amazing book that probably by the time the interview gets posted, the book will have like just come out cause what’s the official available date for the book, March something?

    – Yeah, March 15th.

    – March 15th, I don’t have the schedule in front of me, but this is probably coming out like maybe a little while after that. And it’s called You are the Medicine, so we’re gonna dig into that, but first I have been opening up all of my conversations this season with a couple questions about God. So the first thing I wanna say, I wanna ask you is what do you call God? Like everyone has different ways of like relating to that, naming that. So what is your like naming and relating to that look like?

    – Yeah, so in Ojibwe we say , which means creator. So my way of relating to God is as creator and I would say like creative of all of the kins. So the animals, the trees, the plants, the land. Creator in that way, I guess and I just feel like it exists everywhere. I don’t consider it any sort of gender or anything like that. Creation kind of exists everywhere around me so that’s how I kind of relate to it in that way.

    – I love that. And then what are… I mean, I feel like this is probably what your whole friggin book is about, but so let me fine tune the question a little bit for you specifically, what’s maybe your favorite way to connect with creator right now or is there a more consistent way or something you feel like is your go-to.

    – Yeah, I say on my daily walk, when I go and I see right now it’s really snowy here. So the sunshine and the snow, when it looks like sparkles or like in the snow, that’s creator to me, or it’s usually light, light on water, light on snow. When I see light peeking through trees, that seems to sort of–

    – So I live right on Biscayne Bay in Miami and every day right around three o’clock ish, I’m getting like the full sun, like getting ready to set right on the bay and that light on water is always one of my big ones too. And I love when the sun… Sometimes the sun is coming through the clouds in such a way that you just have to stop and be like, of course, God is real.

    – I love that, yes all that.

    – It’s so beautiful. So cause we are kind of getting to know each other here. Normally I don’t start out by asking people like an origin story and we’ll do like your bio and your intro before the episode starts. So what do you want us to know about you before we dive into book stuff?

    – That’s such a great question. I’ve been thinking about that a lot lately actually about even my purpose. I come back to like, what is my medicine? That’s the name of the book, You are the Medicine. And just this recent, we just went through a full moon, this recent understanding for me is like I think I’m just coming back to a lot of like decolonization and coming to like the truth of my nature, especially in this wild world of social media and being called out of myself, coming back to my nature as a healer. And really the purpose is so simple that I hope that my presence has an impact where it brings tears to people’s eyes. That’s a very clear kind of purpose that I’ve distilled it down to.

    – And why bring tears to people’s eyes? What does that mean for you?

    – Well, I sat with thousands of people in a private practice for almost 15 years and the thing people said to me the most was why do I always cry when I’m here? Or, oh my gosh, I never cry, why am I crying here? And I realized it was just part of the space that I held just innately and it wasn’t something I had to try at. And I think those are the best parts of ourselves where we just show up as ourselves and then some sort of magic happens.

    – And that’s really beautiful. Like I actually cry all the time. I probably cry every day, but I just this past weekend went to a yoga slash sound healing, little mini like half day retreat. And one of the reasons I went is cause the woman who was doing the yoga part, which she did much more than yoga, but a friend of mine I recommended her when I first got to Miami, which was like seven or eight months ago now. And what I didn’t realize, we have the same indigenous lineage. We both come from partly in our families Caribbean Taino people. And when I looked at her, I started crying. I was like, oh God, there’s just something about like being with your own people even, that just melts for me as a mixed person. It melts me every time. So the name of the book is You are the Medicine. Why is that the name of the book?

    – Yeah, it came really from… I was a homeopath for those 15 years and I saw how homeopathy could help people come back to who they are. They were like sort of catalysts of remembering, even those tears, I think sometimes tears as you shared are like remembering, it’s part of our soul remembers something that brings us back to our wholeness or our belonging or something like that. So yeah, You are the Medicine, every person who sat in front of me I would give them, I would see their medicine, I would see the remedy initiate that and catalyze that and bring that forward. And so I really did see the proof that we have, this inherent healing of ability within us. And I saw it in my own life because I’ve had lupus, diagnosed when I was 17 and been in really bad flares and also come through those where I couldn’t walk and I couldn’t bend my hands or write for like months on a time. I couldn’t walk up the stairs. I couldn’t put my socks on. So I just know that there’s this medicine that flows through us that we can go through those cycles of healing and pain.

    – So for anyone who might not know, I mean they could look it up, but since they’re here listening, what is homeopathy?

    – Homeopathy is a system of medicine, it’s energy medicine and it’s based on plant minerals, animal substances and it’s diluted to a point where it becomes an energetic frequency. And I know there’s lots of people who don’t believe in it. And I wish I could just be like, oh my gosh, honestly, like I’ve seen it work with thousands of people, especially with people like I know children and adult people. Animals, it works with animals and children who they have no concept of what it could can or can’t be, but it really just works with frequency and just matching the frequency that needs healing or just shifting and then it just goes into that place and helps us to come back to, I think our natural state. That’s my sense at least.

    – I don’t know why this is the next question that I need to ask you, but what do you notice about… When people are resisting that, this question may or may not make sense, so let me know if you need something more specific, what are they actually resisting?

    – That brings kind of tears to my eyes. I feel like I can feel that, it’s like a wall goes up. I almost sense they’re resisting their true nature. Like there’s something that they don’t wanna see. There’s like a resistance to that vulnerability that like, there’s something beyond that. So that’s what I feel. I feel like a wall go up and then it just like, you can’t get through that. So yeah, resisting your true nature.

    – Are you familiar with Carolyn Mace? Since last summer I’ve been reading like everything that she’s done on mysticism and energy medicine. And I had read Anatomy the Spirit like literally 10 years ago, and then I decided to revisit her stuff, but one of her books is called Why People Don’t Heal and How They Can. And I’m so excited to ask you this question from the place that you come from, especially given what you just said. One of the things that bugs me about our kind of like new age world, law of attraction type world is how true energy medicine gets diluted because people have taken things like the law of attraction and really like upset and turned people off around concepts. Like, well, you attracted that, and that in some way gets translated to, well, if you’re sick, that’s your fault. Like that was your thoughts or that was whatever and it really has people internalizing a lot of shame. Well, how did I cause this and whatever. So I would love if you can share with us what is the difference between like that, cause that’s not it, but there is some truth in what we’ve got going on, what we’re thinking about feeling, not processing, hiding from does affect our health. So what are the truthy bits in there that you work with?

    – I think the shame piece is huge and only because I know I’ve been through that. I was 17. I’ve been searching for healing since then. So I’ve been through all that. Oh, you’re not doing enough alkaline foods and you’re not doing enough green juices. I’m like all the wellness stuff I was in that world for so long and that shame would always hit me. Oh my gosh, I’m just not eating perfectly enough or I’m not thinking the right thought so for all of that and I feel like it did not help me one bit. Also seeing somebody who always saw me as broken did not help me one bit. So I think that holding that space that like, yeah, there might be something out of alignment here, or we might need a new frequency to like take up space here, but it’s not like you need to be fixed. Like it’s already all there and we just need to find a way in, and often that way in just through our shadow, it’s through like the dark, the parts we say are dark, like it’s through the parts that we hide or that we don’t wanna see and I think that’s where the medicine is in those pieces that as society, we just think we’ve just made it dark. We’ve made it shadowy and we’re like, we don’t wanna go there. And those are the pieces where the good stuff is and it’s just not in… I mean, juices are great. Alkaline diets are great, but that’s not the pieces where you’re gonna find that true healing source that is going to be long lasting.

    – So good, so the thing that made me go, oh my God, I have to have her on the podcast, there was this one post on Facebook where you were talking about orcas. And that was the thing, literally 2013 was the year I really actually started downloading my own medicine. I was moving out of fitness, I had done a couple of trainings and energy work. Like a lot of people, Reiki was my gateway into that. That was my first attunement. And I started having dreams and orcas were my dreams. And often there would be little dolphins around in the background with the orcas. And then I would also… Usually in those dreams or dreams surrounding them, someone would be yelling at me, you’re not listening. And I would wake up and be like what am I supposed to be listening for? What do these whales want from me? So I’d love to use that as a segue into what do these animals and not just orcas, but if you wanna geek out on orcas, I’m up for it cause I love them so much, but what do the animals mean to you? How do you work with the animal medicine in dreams or we could take this so many different ways. What’s most exciting for you?

    – I think that they’ve always been with me. so they are in dreams a lot, but orcas have been in the last maybe two years like a huge and they’ll be with dolphins too. And it’s always when I’m at an edge, like an edge of like, and probably you’re not listening, like come on now there’s an edge and you’re ready to walk through the fire and it’s a big fire and they’re like breaching and they’re leaping and it’s like, okay, are you ready to walk through the fire? It’s an invitation to me. So the animals show up in many different ways. Sometimes they come through as ancestors that have passed over and they’ll come through in dreams or in real life as that way. We’ve always had that understanding as indigenous people, that they are our kin, our allies, our siblings, our beings. Like we treat them as that. We’re not above them or below them. Like they are sort of that equal energy with us. And then when I speak up, I don’t… Spirit animal, animal spirit, animal totem has become so big in our vocabulary. I really love to see it as animal medicine. Like what is the medicine they’re bringing to you? And what’s an unlocking kind of like apathic remedy. Like if it comes forward to you, what’s it remind you about yourself? What have you forgotten? What’s in the shadow that you’re not seeing that needs to be looked at and acknowledged so then you can invite that medicine into your life and other medicines are fierce and they are like walking through the fire. So it’s not this like, oh, I just got my wings and I get to fly. It’s like, holy crap. I’m being asked to like walk through something really, really challenging and shadowy and I feel like I might die and I might be going through a death period, but this animal is here as an ally, a guardian, a being. So they have shown off my work since the beginning, since I was on homeopathy when I was 27, the animals would come in around my clients and I’m like, what are you doing here? I was supposed to be giving you a remedy, but they would just start showing up and then I started developing this relationship with them as medicine so they speak to me a lot.

    – I love this, so the orcas, they don’t come as much as they used to because one of the things they were really inviting me into was my power and my own medicine. But what’s interesting when they do come in more recent years, there’s always an opportunity for me to like get up near them and I’m always afraid to touch them. And I think I’ve only had one. I have had so many orca dreams. There’s only been one dream where I’ve actually like touched the orca and it’s so interesting. Like I wanna cry just like thinking about them and like even discovering like their apex predators and like what does that mean? And like they’re camouflaged and it’s a matriarchal culture and they travel in pods and they’re very communal, like all these things, I’m always like, there’s so many layers. What do you want from me this time, orca? What are you trying to show me, so funny. So it goes deep.

    – It does, it does and as you say, there’s so many layers, like those beings have come in and out. I’ll have moose streams and ego feather and like all these different ones come, but then, I just always know when they’re there. I’m like, what is going on? There’s like a huge next level of probably of my medicine that’s ready to be revealed. And I always know it’s gonna be a bit treacherous. Like I have that feeling like it’s gonna be big. It’s gonna be big for my souls evolution and I gotta get ready and they’re there though. That’s the one thing I feel like I’m not alone in it. They’re there to hold that space.

    – I love this and I love talking about this. I had my friend Heather on the podcast last year, she does a lot of like dreams symbolism work. And one of my favorite things that she talks about is we could look up in books, well this animal means this or that animal means this, but there’s really always that aspect of our own connection, our own relationship, like what does it feel like to us?

    – That’s so important I think cause I mean when I do readings for people, like what does it mean? And that’s the number one thing I’ve loved with when I was a private practice holder and I had people on my table and I’d be like, what do you see? What’s unfolding for you. I can see something for you, but the biggest, most deepest rooted wisdom came from when they were like, oh my gosh, I get it. And then it was just like their own knowing. I mean, holding space for that sometimes takes a little longer than telling somebody about what you’re seeing, but it’s so much more potent and it’s just… I don’t know, it’s the way I like to do things. I love looking up the meaning of things too and mixing it with your own medicine is just so wonderful.

    – So we have practitioners listening. So I’m gonna ask this question selfishly for myself, cause I’m always navigating this, but it will relate to other people as well. And actually people who receive, who work with different types of practitioners, this might be helpful to hear as well because no practitioner is perfect and I certainly have felt like people have shared things with me inappropriately or prematurely in the past during certain things. So how do you walk that line? Like what’s your discernment around when to tell someone what you’re seeing or when to more like guide them into seeing something for themself?

    – I think I always love to make the space to let them see it for themselves, like first. So I think I just try to leave as much space as that as possible for that first. And I also have this sense of just… It’s almost like I get this gut feel… It’s almost like I get a vibration in my third eye actually. That’s sort of just like, it’s like a body. It’s like a body feeling like, oh, something wants to be spoken here. Something wants to be shared here, but I’m very careful about those boundaries too. Like with the spirit world, with their spirit asking, may I share this, that’s the one thing that really is hard for me when I’m doing mentorship and I repeat it over and over again, we are not tapping into people’s energy fields without permission. We are not reading anybody like that over the years, the number of DM’s that I’ve gotten… Actually I have a message from you. I had this dream about you that I mean, and it’s just like no, like, no, no, no, there’s not even maybe. You do not tap into somebody’s energy because that’s come at me so much, I’m hypersensitive to that and I wanna make sure those permissions are set up. So I think that when the permission is set up and then I get those feelings in my body, then I will share.

    – Nice, thank you for that. So take us into the book. I want to talk a little creative process as we talk about the book too, though, because as a creative person, writing a book is a whole rite of passage. I found it to be one of the least favorite experiences I’ve ever had in my life. It was so hard. How was it for you?

    – It was really hard, it was really hard and oh, I don’t even know cause it was during a pandemic. My littlest was two at the time when I started and they were both home running around, throwing Play-Doh at my head. That’s literally how I was writing in the middle of my kitchen with just like all of this going on. So I don’t know what would’ve happened if I had like that romantic idea of going to like the beautiful coffee shop and having silence cause that just did not happen. So I found it really hard to like dig deep and pull those things up. The other pieces that were really hard was when I got to some of the chapters around oppression and colonization and residential school trauma, I felt that’s where I got blocked. And I think there were forces at play that were trying to stop my voice from coming through. So I think that some of the depth that I spoke about in the book, there was like energetics going on too that were blocking the flow of the book, which was really, really challenging and very… It was a lot, it was a lot to clear.

    – I got such a chill and I got very emotional as you were saying that like, whew, I could feel that. I’m so glad you wrote it. Thank you for pushing through or moving through whatever you had to move through for that. That was big.

    – It was big.

    – Well then we have to talk about that. People on my show know I cry during my own show all the time, it’s fine. So let’s talk about that because that is… We live in this, we both operate tangentially or probably more directly sometimes in this like self help, personal development, healing, spirituality, like whatever the hell you wanna call this industry. And people really do, especially in social media, I know people would love to spend more times in like the light and fun and lovely parts of it, but the oppressive piece, the decolonization, and let me just ask you cause that is a word that I know gets tossed around and really misused. So when you say decolonization, what are you specifically referring to?

    – Honestly, like the first thing that comes is like the oppression in my chest. Like how could I just let that be seen? And it’s like the truth of… To me, it comes back to like the truth of what’s going on on Turtle Island in our country right now. It’s part of that and also just this like I’m winding so much unwinding of the systems that we have been marinating in for our entire lives, all of us, like all of us. It starts there. And like the colonial trauma that lives in many of our bones, like it’s an unearthing, it’s a huge unearthing and it’s a lifelong process. I feel like on social media it seems like, oh, I’ve got there, I’m like this decolonized person or like there’s this like there to get to and I just don’t think that’s ever gonna happen in our lifetime.

    – We’re always finding more stuff and it’s interesting. I moved to Miami specifically to be in a place… I tried for eight years to make California work for me and I just couldn’t and I had actually done some ancestral healing and then like literally a month after that, it was like time to get outta California. This is not your place. And I really looked at the country and went, where could I actually live that would put me in a place that would put my body in a place that’s close to at least some of my ancestors and Miami was the place cause there’s so many Caribbean Latin people here and certainly the ocean that some of my ancestors communed on, I was like, all right, Miami it will be. And that has been so nourishing and healing and one of the things that I’ve noticed, I don’t know that I even would’ve thought of it until I got here was even around my body, which I’m an embodiment person so I was gonna notice that. But just how people here are so much more free in their bodies. I mean, cause that’s Latin culture. And even in part of it, it’s not even just about like, oh, Latin women are more comfortable in their bodies. It’s not that, it’s hot, it’s hot as hell here. So we’re just gonna wear less clothes. So it’s literally just less of a thing and some of these things might seem so small to people listening, who that’s like not the thing that they need to decolonize from, or that works in their life in some way, but that’s always so interesting to me, like what things pop up for what people wear and at what phases in their life.

    – Oh yeah, I think too, it depends on the colonial trauma that your people experience too. It’s like for indigenous people, especially here, it’s like all the residential school trauma, like these graves that are being dug up and found of all these children, which is recent, but we’ve been talking about it. I have been talking about that on social media for like three years and talking, talking, talking, nobody ever just listens, nobody really cares. This comes up and everybody’s like, ah, and then on national truth reconciliation day, everybody’s like on it. And now it’s like, nah. It’s really challenging cause that will rattle my body again to just see that like people care for one day, they put a square up for one day and then it’s like, oh yeah, that happened and now we’re just over it. So that lives in our land. Like if we think about beneath our feet, that lives beneath our feet, it’s a truth that lives beneath our feet, which we are absorbing every day. So it’s in everybody’s bones, it should be, it should be in everybody’s bones that vibration of that truth. So it’s a lot. For me, I feel like it’ll be like a lifetime support.

    – What would you prefer to see people doing with that information as it comes up?

    – I think I would just love to see maybe like the long game of it. Like maybe, perhaps people like just even talking about it, like not leaving it all to indigenous people to talk about on those days. It’s a lot of heaviness and I don’t have to choose this, let me say, I don’t have to choose to talk about these things. I could talk to you to talk about joy all time. It’s just something that’s in my soul that says the truth needs to be because the truth for indigenous people here at least just keeps getting covered, covered, covered up. And even that oppression, that word oppression, it’s being used now everywhere with everything that’s going on. So yeah, I think it’s just like a… Just maybe being part of consciousness a little bit more feels and that might be a judgment. It just literally feels like it gets covered up after those days.

    – And what about like off social media? What would you recommend because that, and this is something I stopped doing last year. I used to be the person that would be so diligent about if something’s going on, making sure I was like mentioning it, bringing up, bringing it to people’s awareness and like using my platform in that way. But then I decided that that’s actually not genuine for me because I don’t need to be making sure people are paying attention to all these things in my smaller, like more private communities to be talking about it more deeply or even with my close personal friends to actually be processing stuff and being like, yo, what are you doing about this? Where are you giving your money? Like there was just a switch for me. I didn’t wanna be performative, which there are ways to post things publicly without being performative or virtue signaling. But for whatever reason, it just felt so important to me to be having deeper, more intimate, and like you said, more ongoing conversations in action and like learning from each other and being accountable with like friends and close people or learning partners and stuff like that. So what other kinds of things either do you do personally or do you recommend for other people to do cause social media is one avenue. It’s one place to be active.

    – Yes, you’re right. And I’m kind of the same in that way as like I can’t on there all the time doing that. Like I’ve had to step away from that too, cause it was too much for my nervous system. So I think all the things you said are so beautiful, like having these conversations, I have those with my friends like all the time we just talk about these issues. Even just simple I think like standing on the earth barefoot and just being in your body and saying whose land am I on? Like whose land is this? And just kind of communicating with the land and just being present to some of those, things I think could be a daily practice that would be really easy for folks to do. And even I think about my kids, they do like a land acknowledgement every morning. What are we saying? Like just being conscious when we say those words, what are we actually saying and reading some books, doing the things that I think… You’re right, like that personal work is everything because that’s where we have to build the capacity to have that in our everyday experience and it needs to have some joy too. So I love how you said that cause I think it’s really, really important, but all of the things you said I think are beautiful, like bringing it to your family conversations, bringing it to your friends and allowing space for everybody to kind of share what they’re experiencing too cause I don’t see things in a black and white way. I think there’s a lot of nuance to all of the conversation and I also believe so strongly in repair. Like I think we can mess up and we can make repairs. So if we just opened our heart to that possibility that I’ve messed up, I would love somebody to be open to me making repair. And if we just hang out in that space with our friends and our relationships, I think the world would change from that place.

    – I just think that’s so important. I’m with you, the repair. And I mean, and this is not a new conversation when people talk about how afraid people are these days with cancel culture and all these things to like speak up or do anything, but doing nothing is worse.

    – And I know, the cancel culture is so huge right now and just watching it makes my head spin sometimes. So I don’t know, repair is medicine to me and I wish we all talked about it more.

    – How did you teach your kids about land acknowledgement cause they’re little.

    – They’re little, they’re four and they’re nine. My kids, we talk a lot about the truth. My therapist is great about this. He’s always just like your kids will know it’s in their bones, it’s in their blood, it’s in their waters. Like they know the truth and they’ll have nightmares about the truth unless you speak about the truth. And I’m also Jewish and my husband’s Jewish, I converted so his grandfather’s in the Holocaust so I know they’ve got this Holocaust trauma, this trauma. So we just talk about the truth of all of that. And I know people say make it age appropriate, I try and the truth.

    – What does that even mean though?

    – I don’t know. I tell them the truth and yeah, and the truth is horrifying. Like what happened in residential schools is horrifying and I’ll say to them like mommy’s so lucky that I get to tuck you to bed at night. Like I will tell them what I’m grateful for cause those things did not happen for so many children. And if I was living in another time, they would be taken away from me. Even like sterilization of women in hospitals still happens to indigenous women. I could have been sterilized and not have a second child like those things are real so we talk about it.

    – Good, thank you. And I know before we started recording, we were just kind of touching on certain things in the book that we definitely wanted to make sure we included in the conversation. And one of the things that you said was generational trauma and I’m actually so glad because this is something that a couple of weeks ago, I actually text messaged like eight of my friends. So I’m gonna ask you the question I asked them and then we could talk about whatever else you wanna talk about around it especially related to what’s in your book so people know what they could look for when they get it. But one of the things that I feel like… I constantly feel conflicted around is those of us who have had more access to healing or therapy, or even just having like supportive friends, having platform like podcast, like we could talk about this stuff, we could listen. We even know we have trauma because how many of us have parents who maybe even had no awareness around trauma, but we’re certainly functioning from it or in it, or that’s where they were parenting from primarily. I don’t say this in a superior way, it’s just like a factual, when we are more healed, just because we’ve done work than older generations, living generations in our family, what do you you feel is if there even is any responsibility on our part because you know how people say, well, they’re a different generation almost as a way to like excuse some of this like sometimes abusive, sometimes just really offensive behavior. What’s our responsibility when engaging with people who haven’t done the work we have and don’t have the awareness we have, but are still being really harmful.

    – Ooh, that’s a hard one. It’s really hard. I think that still speaking to it… This is the way I see it cause I’m always really clear that the ancestors are watching like there’s witnesses in rooms and even like all of creation is witnessing. So as you speak it, even if that person doesn’t take it in or hear you and it just like goes right by, this plant is hearing it, the wind is hearing it so I just think it still has an impact. All of creation is hearing.

    – That really makes me wanna like curl up in a ball and cry for like three days, so beautiful. I’m also on day two of my cycle so I’ve already cried four times today, but that’s so beautiful and I wanna thank you because I recently had a little over a month ago an emergency gallbladder surgery. And while I was healing, there are some things like that I just let pass with like people in my family. Pretty regular and like whatever, they are who they are, they’re not gonna change. But when I was healing, there was just something about being in that really vulnerable position. I’m typically like the strong one. People in my family aren’t used to me being the vulnerable one, but like I had incisions in my belly. I needed a special chair cause I couldn’t even stand up on my own for the first couple days. And when a couple people in my family started giving me their typical shit, there was just something in me that was like not today. And I said something to certain members of my family and they got so offended and I wasn’t rude. I wasn’t nasty, basically I was just like hey, this isn’t cool. Hey, this is very inconsiderate and unhelpful while I’m laying here in this position. And they just couldn’t believe how disrespectful I would be to just speak up and I kind of knew that would be the reaction, but there was a part of me that was like, I need to say this for my own benefit. Like there’s an inner child here that I’m the parent of now, that I get to be like I got us, girl. We don’t have to take their crap anymore. But this aspect, I just feel so moved by what you said, the plants in my home could hear that, Biscayne Bay could hear it out, like this matters. It travels on the winds, like that’s so… That extra layer feels so special to me so thank you. What else, how do you even define generational trauma?

    – It’s always like experiential for me or like I know I don’t love… I’m not like oh, this is academically how I do this.

    – I’m never asking for like an academic we could put it in a textbook definition. I’m like, what does it look like, feel like, what’s the experience for you?

    – You know what, an experience for me is in dreams and visions and in my waters and it’s in my words and the screams that I hear in my womb, like it comes as like a very visceral experience. One of the stories I told in my book is my son, when he started school, he did not wanna go and at one point they said, mommy do not let them snatch me away. And I’ve never used that word snatch before in my life. He was four and I remember his face. He looked terrified, do not let them snatch me away. And I’m like, where does that come from? And I think the Holocaust, the residential schools, that just like obviously brought a lot up. That was before I had done some of this work more deeply. And that’s what it looks like to me. It looks like it being expressed through a next generation where it’s just like where is this coming from? And it’s like these rememberings in our bones that just like… And as I said, it does come to me through dreams and I think it comes to all of us in this way. And if we’re paying attention, we haven’t been like… It’s been colonized out of us to be like, don’t listen to your dreams. Your visions don’t matter, your intuition doesn’t matter. Like all those things have been smushed out of us, but that’s where the messages are. That’s where the wisdom is. So that’s how it comes forward for me. And I’ve had to learn how to shake that out cause it’s intense. Like I have visions all the time like priests and nuns and Jesuits and missionaries like that are being my oppressor because they were my grandparents’ oppressors and they stripped them of all of their medicines, their language, they beat them from their language. Like my grandfather only spoke Ojibwe until he went to residential school and they beat that language out of him. That’s why I don’t speak it now. So it’s like those are the visions that live in my story, but also in my bones. So yeah, it’s a lot, I think it’s a lot to walk with.

    – So I’m not fluent in Spanish, even though my dad’s whole side of the family is Puerto Rican. And then there’s reason for that choice in my household. But moving to Miami, I understand a lot, but I feel very self-conscious to speak. And so I’ve been taking lessons so I could learn and I could be fluent, but I was also working with an indigenous Taino healer to connect with that aspect of my lineage. And she reminded me, she’s like, well, remember Spanish is not our language. And it was just like duh, like when you say it’s so conditioned into us, I had a moment of being like of course it’s not. In fact that is actually the colonizer’s language. And just having this moment. So I’m curious for you because then this struck me, but my family who has lived in Puerto Rico or on Puerto Rico for many generations, it became their language so that is now folded into the ancestry. Even though it’s not the original tongue, it’s so much, like you said earlier. Like there’s so much nuance to it. I don’t even know what the question is. How do you feel about that? What does that bring up for you?

    – It’s actually related to that book because I wanted to put some Ojibwe words into my book, the moon names, and then the animals and nobody was there to teach me these. So I’ve had to ask some people, but then again, we have so many different dialects across… Even in so called Ontario right now, we have so many different dialects. So I got all like sort of what is the perfect one? What is the right one and who’s gonna call me out cause there’s a lot of lateral violence that goes into this with indigenous people. And it was terrifying and it was terrifying, but I could feel my grandfather say these words need to be in here. However you want to put them in, this is how they have to be in. And also me learning. I took three courses now to title learn Ojibwe and I just cannot because I know that that generational trauma is so heavy that for me to go and try to learn it is there’s just such a block and I worked on it. So I was reading my book, doing my audio version and I’d have to stop at every Ojibwe word and I’d have to go to the dictionary, listen to it, listen to it again, because I’m terrified. It makes me emotional, I’m terrified of somebody saying, you’re not saying it right or you said it the wrong way. Like that’s just my biggest fear because there’s so much trauma attached to that. So yeah, language is like a big thing. And I know that that trauma’s not all mine, but I do hear it in trying to get this out into the world. I still carry it and I know that I’m doing my best and I’m honoring my ancestors by putting it in there.

    – I really feel that with you and can you, whatever you feel comfortable speaking to, about the lateral violence among people. This is one of my least favorite things in this world that we’re living in now where it seems like we’re just trying so hard to decolonize and to reindigenize. I lean more towards in choosing words, but like pro this or re that rather than like anti or de, but I know we need all of it, but I find that so many people wanna sit here and pick apart those of us who just wanna do better and bring better. And I’m like, y’all, can we please all point our arrows against the oppressors, not each other as we’re like, we’re trying and I think this is such an important thing that you just brought up. There was no one to teach you. Like you were having to fucking Google shit so you can learn it about your own ancestry and that is not your fault. And that doesn’t make you any less of what you are, but it sucks.

    – It does suck and for so long, because there is a lot of those arrows coming and they’re coming at… I know why they come at me. There’s so much trauma around sharing our medicines. There’s so much trauma around what’s been taken away. Like I understand the trauma and if I’m not sharing it, then all the white women are sharing it. So I’m like, who would you rather share this? Who gets the voice? And that’s what they’re attacking me for. And I think, okay, so I’ve had to stay really clear and like I am the one that’s gonna take up space here, even in a publishing house that is mostly people who have shared all of my teachings already. I’m gonna have to take up space here because nobody else is doing it. So it’s like being that trailblazer sometimes is really fucking hard, it’s just like so hard. And that’s what the lateral violence tends to come at. And it’s mean, and I have a hard time with me and I’m just very sensitive. So it’s like, you’re a liar, you’re this, you don’t know this. You didn’t grow up here, you don’t have this and it’s just like so much. So I know how much courage it takes to do what I’m doing. Like I know that and like sometimes I just wanna curl up in a ball and go back to bed.

    – Like I’m not gonna do it today. Just gimme a little recalibration break today. And I hope anyone listening, especially white people, let that sink in for you. And half my ancestry is European so this is for me too. If you have colonizers in your ancestry, that part of us needs to reconcile that too, like we have to know because we’re all connected that doing violence to someone else is doing violence to ourselves. So on the other side of like that’s also traumatic. That’s often why white people don’t wanna hear it. They don’t wanna deal with it cause they don’t wanna have to reconcile that if that’s in your lineage, that is your trauma also affecting your current life. And then to hear how hard it is for folks to just own their own lineage, because it has been colonized out of them and then even by their own people. So it’s like doubly… If you could even measure it hard, if anything, I’m just inviting people to like really intense compassion around this.

    – Yeah, it is doubly hard. It does feel like it comes from all directions. I just had to get so clear, like as we’re having this conversation, I’m like damn, like I had to get really clear in writing this and even putting this out in the world in this way about who I am and how I’m gonna stand, because I know I’m here to take up more space and as I said, like people have already shared all this medicine, they share it. Like people share animal spirits and moon teaching, like all of these things. Not in the way that I have perhaps. So yeah, I just want part of that space. I want part of the land to share it on.

    – So what would you say in your particular medicine, in your particular approach, from what you see that’s now like mainstream, what are some of like the distinctions? What are some of the nuances that you offer in the book?

    – Well, I was actually really concerned when I wrote my first draft that a lot of would be colonized. Like that was one of my… And people were saying that too outside of me. Like make sure they don’t colonize you, make sure they don’t blah, blah, blah you and I was like, okay, well I’m gonna write what I wanna write. So when I was little, my mom used to read me these beautiful legends before I went to sleep and I loved them and they just really developed my whole outlook on how I saw the natural world because the animals would talk and the trees would speak and it was just like all of creation would communicate with each other. So I wanted to write some legends in my book. I wanted it to make it really like breathe some of that animation into like the beings and creations. So it has some storytelling in that way that are very based on like how I grew up and what I learned and it has these stories that I was worried they take out, but they didn’t. So I’m really grateful for that cause that I think sets it apart a little bit from some of the other self-help books that I’ve read in that way. And also I think… I’m not sure, I haven’t read a lot of like animal spirit books, but I think it’s like just the relational aspect of like I talk a lot about reciprocity, a lot about honoring, a lot about if you’re going to use these teachings, this is what also you have to know. Just a lot of this, like it’s not gate keeping. I see it as like reciprocity, like thank that animal being for being with you, like honor them, make an altar, do those things that are really gratitude. I think from an indigenous mindset is like reciprocity and gratitude is so huge and I just think that that is poured into my book as teaching.

    – So something that’s wild that like always happens to me whether I have a podcast interview, healing sessions, akashic records readings with clients, like what’s ever going on, often like the day of or the day before, something will like cross my awareness usually on social media actually. So people who wanna be like social media is garbage. I’m like, you can get gems anywhere if you’re looking for gems. Just this morning, I saw a post that was saying something like you don’t need to make an ancestor alter. You don’t need to do da, da, da, like everything is our ancestors. The land, the rocks, the this, that, whatever. And it’s interesting because what you’re saying is make an altar and these are our ancestors. You’re saying like, yes, all those things are your ancestors and you could also have this like reverence for it and engage with it in this certain way. And so I always find it so interesting. Like there’s so many ways to approach things, but I’m feeling from what you’re saying, you’re using the word reciprocity, but I’m hearing reverence in that.

    – I think yeah, reverence is so… And I just have so much experience with this. With folks who like that was the beginning of my sort of teaching journey is like all of these white women cause I teach primarily white women. So they all came and they were just like, give me the teachings, give me me the teachings, that’s what it felt like. This feeling of like, I wanna know all I can and I wanna be like you and like that was a whole thing. Like can I be like you? And I’d always just be like, no, like, no, no, no, you are not gonna be a mini Asha, you are going to be your own medicine keeper. So I think that like reverence brings us back to like, yeah, how these medicines have been stripped from my people and my lineage and if you’re just taking them and just like using them without that reverence, then you’re just missing the whole trauma that is taking me to get here to even share them. So that is like honoring the wholeness of the journey. Like the really, really shadowy, colonial oppressive parts. I think people who are receiving the teachings have to hold that too.

    – And if your whole book is about you or the medicine, it’s like you guys have your own ancestors, you know that.

    – And I know it’s more like I understand cause when they have their disconnection, like people have disconnection from their ancestry or traumas happened. So I understand cause I spend with a lot of folks that are just like, I don’t know who my ancestors are. I don’t know what their practices were. And I’m like, well, have you looked, like have you even went to look or was it just easier to take somebody else’s and I understand the beauty that it looks like and all the things, the shiny things. But have you looked, have you taken to time to talk to some of your elderly family members and sat and have tea with them to ask about stories? Because I guarantee the stories are there. If you’re attracted to that like indigenous medicine, I know there’s a vibration similar to that in your lineage.

    – I’m so glad you’re saying this because kind of like we mentioned cancel culture earlier being like the prohibitive force that makes people not wanna engage cause they don’t wanna get in trouble, cultural appropriation is that as well. They don’t wanna appropriate so they’re like, but at the same time, just like what you said, if something is calling you towards this, there’s reasons and it’s so interesting. Again, literally I did years ago, probably like 2017 and just this morning, like have you ever done one of those, 23AndMe or Ancestry? Just this morning, cause they update things sometimes and then I’ll get a random. So literally like an hour before this interview, Ancestry pops something up and what tends to be the things that get updated is they get a little more refined in being able to tell you what region. So for example, a good chunk of my family is Italian. And I remember when I first did my ancestry, it was like Southern Italy and now it’s like update. You can actually see what region of Southern Italy and I’m like, oh, that’s facet… Like that’s really interesting to me and then I go like what you’re saying? I’m like ooh, who were the witches? Like what were the… Somebody was indigenous there at some point, but also who came through cause even European people, most European countries were colonized just some point by somebody. We’ve all heard of the Roman empire. But I geek out on that stuff and I also think about the regions of the world that I’m so drawn to. Even just like, why would I be so drawn to Morocco? And then what comes up in my damn lineage? Like Morocco, Tunisia, whatever and I’m like, ah, there it is.

    – Well yeah, your bones know, like your waters know like it’s important. I love that. I mean, I had so many conversations about appropriation. I wrote this letter, dear white woman wants to be like me and like went viral. And there was so much like… I mean, some people were so upset, so upset, but it was just from personal experience of dealing with like serving that audience for so long and what came forward and what sort of harmed me at the time. And I also like have a lot of compassion for like it’s a journey. And I don’t know, like I think seeing where we’ve done harm, maybe in the past, having compassion for ourselves, we can make mistakes and we can have repair. And I think that the appropriation conversation has I’m not black and white about that. I have a lot of nuance about that and I understand from an indigenous perspective, like there is gonna be a lot of indigenous people from Canada that will say you do not have an animal spirit. Like you are not allowed to have an animal spirit. And it’s just very black and white and that’s not my experience working with all these white women so I can’t say that. So I have to talk from my experience and that’s all I know, because we are not a monolith. That’s like the biggest thing. People just think like every first nation in so-called Canada is like their own little country and like blanket statement, all of us can say, this is what we all believe, but it’s not for me. I think there’s a lot of nuance and I love that. I do think like… People talk about the indigenous spirit. I think that indigenous spirit does live on in many of us that we have to come inside to discover it. It’s not out here.

    – Totally and even like once I find those pieces to connect the dots, like cool, this might be the region, well someday who knows what the world might be like, maybe I’ll get to go there and put my feet in that land and feel what that’s like and see what comes in for me personally. Or like then maybe what I start dreaming about or whatever so it’s more like cool, now that I have a place to hone in on, I can exactly like you’re saying see what does that activate? What does that open up for me? What now might come through and be available? And I appreciate what you said about being nuanced about it. Even for example, like the animal medicine or the animal spirit or whatever language people wanna use cause like that orca thing we said about earlier, they came into my dreams. Like I didn’t choose these orcas, they chose me. So is someone gonna be like, sorry, what’s happening in your own dreams you can’t have. That doesn’t really make sense. But I also wasn’t out here calling orcas my spirit animals. I was just saying there’s orcas in my dreams and they’re very meaningful connection for me. So let’s talk about working with the moon is a big part of your work as well. What do you love talking about when it comes to the moon?

    – Oh, the moon. Well, in my book, we go through the 13 moon cycles so there’s 13 moons in there. The names are based on sort of the land that I’m on. So the medicine that comes through has an animal spirit that goes with each moon and it’s based on the hunting or the gathering or whatever the seasons that were going on at that time. I’ve always loved the moon. I’m sure a lot of people have always loved the moon. Like it’s our first family. It’s part of our first family. And I think it’s something that we can all relate to cause it’s always been there. And I love to talk about seasons and cycles because I think in my own life I’ve been in, especially with my health, my physical body has been in a lot of shadow and darkness. So I’ve had to learn to sit with a lot of pain and learn to sit with a lot of pulling me into hibernation kind of energy. So I talk about bare medicine a lot because that has been my biggest teaching. Like I have that capitalistic colonial push. Like you must keep going, you must push harder. You must do all those things. And my body’s like no, you can’t, you can’t. So bear’s just like, come on, come on. Let’s slow down, let’s take a break. Let’s set boundaries, let’s say no. And it’s just a continual journey for me. So I love the seasonal cyclical nature of the moon and just understanding that every single cycle is important. Even in this world of capitalistic, we must be on all the time, I think the moon calls me back to understanding that I need quiet and rest and darkness and shadowy times just as much as I need the other times.

    – How do you reconcile living in the real world and having bills to pay and raising children and like actually… Like there were some times when you do have to be on. Like these little kids need to eat breakfast. So how do you reconcile the truths that you just shared with the reality of what living in this world is like?

    – I think I’m still reconciling it. I think it’s really, really hard. And I wish like there’s been so many… One of my biggest truths is like I wish I was just taken care of. It doesn’t happen. I have to hustle to make things happen, that is the reality of things. So for me, I guess it’s like being really… It’s like literally, like I need a bath for 20 minutes. That is gonna be my rest time or I’m going to go to bed. It’s very simple for me. I need to go to bed early tonight. I need to take a bath. Like it’s little tiny moments or I need my walk today or I’m going to go crazy. Where I just have to build those things in because doing all the things, especially during a pandemic has been so hard, so so hard and also I realized how hooked in I was to this online business thing that it was like I had a private practice. I’m like, oh, I’m gonna like do something different now and I got so hooked into. I need a funnel, I need this, I need that and then I was just… Yesterday actually on this full moon, I was just like, I am a healer. And however it’s supposed to unfold like that, that’s what I am and I need to just like shed myself cause this is not serving me. It actually makes me sick to hustle and push and launch all the time.

    – Something I’m constantly saying to my people, I’m like listen y’all, I’m more medicine woman than business woman. But because I live in the 21st century, to be a medicine woman, I have to be a business woman. And I’m a mystic and so like you said, I would rather… I had this epiphany last week actually cause I’ve been saying this to you, I would rather like live in a hut in a village and there’s no money exchange, but the village feeds me, shelters me and clothes me and that’s the exchange. But then I look at my life and like my chosen path. I’m child free, I actually love not having a partner. It wasn’t that way for a while, but like last year I was like, wait a second. Why am I even trying to meet a man? I love being on my own. I was like God, if you want someone for me, just like send them in and they’re literally gonna have to like find me on the street or like pick me up at Whole Foods cause I’m not doing this dating thing anymore. But I was like, oh, I guess I looked around my little like one bedroom apartment with my view and I’m like, maybe this is my hut. Maybe this is my 21st century hut and me not having kids or not having a partner is like my way of like creating this fantasy of like probably my ancestors’ lifetimes or previous lifetimes and being like, all right, well this is the closest I could get. So this is what… I was actually really laughing about that to myself a week or two ago. I’m like maybe I’ve done it in the only capacity I could do it, I don’t know.

    – Well, I love that cause I think we hear like I wanna go back in time to the time when, but I’m like but do you, because we didn’t have a lot of conveniences then either. So yeah, I hear you. I think for me it’s like more like the internal rush that I try to like pay attention to because no matter what’s going on outside, I’m trying to I guess like reindigenize that part of me that just feels like it has to push through or have a certain number of whatevers, like the metrics. I’m trying to like unwind the metrics.

    – I find one of the most important slash easy, and this is for me, this really might not be the case for other people, things to unwind from its time. Actually saw someone last week on Instagram say we do not need to live on colonial time. And I love that. And where I started doing that was in the context of white supremacy, like urgency is a function of like whiteness at work or white supremacy, like always functioning on someone else’s timeline or someone else’s agenda and I’m like, oh cool. Like I can as a business owner, that I can unhook from because I make the timelines. So for me and people on my team, I could be like, we’re not doing that, y’all. What can we do to make sure there’s almost never any urgency in our world, which almost never. Never isn’t really possible. So that’s cool. Is there anything else that you find is either easier or at least more accessible for you to unwind from?

    – I don’t know. It feels sticky, it feels sticky as you say that. I think that that’s like a big sticking point for me right now is just like, it’s been part of like this understanding. Well, I guess that feels like it’s part of my bones too, it’s like a whip saying like you have to that inner oppressors really powerful. So I love the urgency piece though, cause for me, that resonates with my hustle, like my inner hustler. That’s just like got a lot of value from being a hustler, and a lot of acceptance from that. Just seeing like… I mean I still need to make money. I still need to make money. How do I find the way to do that without that urgency piece locked into all of it. I love that word cause you’ve got that. That’s the thing, I wanna do things in a way that doesn’t even cause that trauma for other people or it feels urgent. Like I just wanna be so mindful of that like we’re coming as co-creators and it’s ease filled, that feels beautiful to me.

    – And this is also one of the things I realized. I’m like part of it, you know what actually really helped me too was humility. I love like the practice of humility and like really embody humility. Because I think in this online world, we can become a little self important sometimes cause we’re get adding that instant gratification and feedback. Like social media. Ooh, I posted, people liked it. Ooh, I asked if people would be interested in this and they said yes so I must put it out into the world by the end of next week. It’s like, cool. I’ll get to it when I get to it, like they can have it when I’m ready to give it to them rather than feeling this invisible force of demand cause no one’s really demanding. I could shut on my business tomorrow and some people will be upset. No one’s life is ending if I decide to stop doing what I’m doing. I’m like that is like very… I think about that all the time. Actually you know what I really think about it is when someone like in our industry passes away, which we’ve had a couple of really big unexpected… People will call it premature, I don’t believe in that, you go when it’s your time in the last several years and I’m always like wow and their communities just move on.

    – Yeah, that is so humbling.

    – Is there anything I didn’t ask you about the book or about anything you’ve got going on or coming up that you were hoping I would ask you?

    – We’ve touched a lot of things. I really thank you so much for going so deep.

    – Of course.

    – Touched a lot of beautiful things that I really wanted to share.

    – Oh good, so where people find it, get the book, make sure they have all your links, all your social media. Tell them everything please.

    – Yeah, so I have a free gift. There’s a 13 minute ceremony guide that goes along with the book. So if you wanted to spend that way, it’s and you can find all the places. Across Turtle Island, you can get it I think Target, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, little bookstores too if you wanna them to carry it, that’s like a huge win for me. So yeah, I’d love to share in that way and then follow me on Instagram cause that’s where I show up the most I guess the most authentically. I’m not there all the time. I’m there when I feel drawn to be there.

    – And we’ll put all those links in the show notes as well. And in the intro, we told them the link to the show notes page. Well thank you so much. It was nice to actually get to connect, learn more, I appreciate your wisdom and I mean, I feel like I teared up like three or four times in this interview so thanks for hitting me in the bones.

    – Aw, thanks so much. It’s been such a pleasure.

    – All right, we’ll see you later.