Dating isn’t always easy. Today Ken Page and Elizabeth discuss deeper dating  


This is my new favorite interview of all time, period. I had a feeling it might be as today’s guest is the author of a book that completely changed my life last year. The book is Deeper Dating and the author is Ken Page.

I waited to have him on the show for a few months so I could implement what I learned from the book when I read it the summer of 2018. I also recommended it to several friends and clients and have been geeking out on it for months.

Anyway – I could gush on but truly, I hope you enjoy this as much as I did and listen several times.

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Ken’s big truth was around hidden arrogance when in conflict. From there we talked about intimacy as a journey of rupture and repair, learning about the humble act of messing up, how he came to discover the content in the Deeper Dating book in his work with clients as a therapist and his perspective on codependency. Then we talked about my favorite concept in the book: Attractions of Inspiration and Attractions of Deprivation aka why we get turned on by things that aren’t good for us and how to shift away from that to being turned on to what is. It’s game-changing, y’all! We talked about emotional availability and finally – FINALLY!! He gave me alternative language to use instead of “masculine and feminine” – “instrumentality and expressiveness.” We also bumped into one of my own biggest wounds that comes up in romantic relationships and I had a little cry in the middle of the interview. Like I said, this is my favorite interview of all time period. Enjoy, share, tell your friends, review it, get the Deeper Dating book, and I hope you find me on Instagram and tell me everything after you listen! E  

About Ken Page

Ken Page, LCSW, is a renowned psychotherapist, leading Psychology Today blogger, Huffington Post blogger and author of the bestseller Deeper Dating: How to Drop the Games of Seduction and Discover the Power of Intimacy. He has been featured in O, The Oprah Magazine, The New York Times, Cosmopolitan, Fox News, WPIX-TV News and more. Page has led hundreds of workshops on intimacy and spirituality for thousands of participants. He has taught at Columbia University, the Omega Institute and the Garrison Institute. Before writing his book, Page founded Deeper Dating in 2004; an event in which trained facilitators shared the insights of Deeper Dating and then led participants in a series of fun and enriching exercises. The live events he led provided an alternative to the bar scene and superficial dating events and drew thousands of men and women of all ages, backgrounds and sexual orientations. His work has been highly acclaimed by numerous top thought leaders, including Harville Hendrix and Helen LaKelly Hunt, Arielle Ford, Edward Hallowell, MD, Chip Conley, and Judith Orloff, MD. Katherine Woodward Thomas, New York Times bestselling author of Calling in The One and Conscious Uncoupling says, “Ken Page is my new relationship guru!”  

Connect with Ken Page

Website | Twitter | Facebook    

In this interview with Ken Page on Deeper Dating

  • [8:58] How Ken came to a place where he could do the work of repair in intimate relationships
  • [11:40] The concept of finding your gifts in your moons
  • [15:44] Attractions of deprivation versus attractions of inspiration
  • [18:14] The myth of lost love
  • [21:22] Whether someone can be both deprivational and inspirational to us instead of just one or the other
  • [22:40] Understanding our circuitry of attraction and how it can lead to falling in love
  • [24:55] How Ken’s work intersects with other dating advice and what we need to move away from
  • [29:50] Alternative language to “masculine” and “feminine”
  • [37:22] The deeper physics of dating
  • [40:57] My experience putting Ken’s book to practice in my own life
  • [46:55] Ken’s explanation of co-dependency
  • [48:35] Learning to accept generosity from others
  • [49:55] What “the wave” is and what to do when you experience it
  • [57:57] An exercise that brings you closer to the you that you want to be.

Resources for Deeper Dating


Quotes from this Week’s Episode with Ken Page on Deeper Dating

  • “I was chronically single, like badly single and wanting a relationship for decades and decades.” – Ken Page
  • “The places where they [Ken’s clients] felt the most shame were the places I thought they were the most beautiful.” – Ken Page
  • “I left my wild and insane search for love that never ended and never got anywhere and I found that I was starting to become sexually attracted to guys that weren’t assholes and they were attracted to me.” – Ken Page
  • “The parts of ourselves that we kick to the curb because we’ve been so embarrassed by them are our souls, they’re our holiness, they’re our magic, they’re our masculinity, they’re our femininity, they’re our gorgeousness, they’re our power, and when we learn to love those, our world changes.” – Ken Page
  • “In a very binary way, there are two kinds of attractions that we can have. There’s what I call ‘an attraction of deprivation’, which is usually a sexy and wild and hot and incredibly scratch the itch and it’s the attraction to someone who almost loves us or almost treats us right.” – Ken Page
  • “Every one of us knows the agony and the suffering on the planet of proving — that’s the planet of pain.” – Ken Page
  • “It’s not about understanding your attractions and until we understand the contours of our attractions, we’ll do the same patterns again and again.” – Ken Page
  • “As we understand gender in richer ways, we need to reconstruct our understanding of dating and love and romance and gender and all of that.” – Ken Page
  • “You goal is not to be an alpha man, your goal is to be you.” – Ken Page
  • “When you suppress your authenticity you create a vacuum inside and that vacuum will be filled with a masochistic situation sooner or later.” – Ken Page
  • “It’s so painful, so painful to be consistently rejected for the things that make me who I am.” – Elizabeth DiAlto
  • “The one question you want to ask is, ‘does my soul feel safe with this person? Does my soul feel inspired with this person?’” – Ken Page
  • “On the other side of pain is always some type of growth.” – Elizabeth DiAlto
  • “Every defense we have, underneath it is a wound. Every wound we have, underneath it is a gift and inside that gift is our greatness, is our deepest soul. ” – Ken Page
  • “Co-dependency is a core gift of generosity that we have not yet learned how to manage and curate and dignify.” – Ken Page
  • “When you learn to honor and dignify your gift, you will make so much better choices.” – Ken Page
  • “You do not have to be with anybody you’re not attracted to just because they’re good for you.” – Ken Page

How was this episode for you?

Was this episode helpful for you today? I’d love to know what quote or lesson touched your soul. Let me know in the comments below OR share the episode on Instagram, tag me your stories @elizabethdialto, or send me a DM!

About the Embodied Podcast with Elizabeth DiAlto

Since 2013 I’ve been developing a body of work that helps women embody self-love, healing, and wholeness. We do this by focusing on the four levels of consciousness – physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual.

In practical terms, this looks like exploring tools and practices to help you tune into the deep wisdom of the body and the knowing of the heart, which I believe are gateways to our souls. Then we cultivate a new relationship with our minds that allows the mind to serve this wisdom and knowledge and soul connection, rather than override it, which is what many of us were taught.

The show runs in seasons now and this season we’re focusing on my EMBODIED Self Love Framework.

We’ll be looking at Self Awareness, Self Knowledge, Self Acceptance, Self Trust, and Self Respect – with a bonus episode on Boundaries as well.

If you’ve been doing self-help or spiritual development work for a while, these are the types of foundational things that often people overlook in pursuit of fancier concepts that often aren’t practical or sustainable. Here, we will focus on building these strong foundations so you can honestly and thoroughly embody self-love. If you’re feeling it, subscribe to the show, and leave us a review wherever you listen from. You can also keep up with show updates and community discussions on Instagram here.