I Am Diosa with Christine Gutiérrez

Are you aware of how birthing can change you?

We’re not just talking about the birth of children but also the birthing of projects, dreams and ideas.

In today’s episode, I’m speaking with Christine Gutiérrez, a therapist, author of I Am Diosa, spiritual mentor, and mother.

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As someone who has experienced firsthand an orgasmic birth, Christine uncovers the birthing process and how becoming a mother has shifted who she is internally and externally to the world around her.

We’re both people who are outspoken in our beliefs, integrity and ethical code. We chat about how this impacts the choices we make and the opportunities we pursue.

Listen in as we talk about how her rhythms and cycles have shifted since birthing and as she’s stepped into motherhood and how she engages with work now. Whether you’re a mother or not, there are a lot of gems in this discussion.

Listen to episode 383 now!

In episode 383 of the Embodied Podcast we discuss:

[3:03] What people called on her for and how she’s showing up as that
[4:13] How she’s communing differently with God since becoming a mother and going through her own portal
[10:30] Her initiation into spirituality and the path it led her on
[12:45] What happens to your soul when you’re faced with death
[16:21] Being vulnerable and embracing the divine child within
[18:44] How her rhythms have changed since becoming a mother
[23:01] How people equate birthing to non-human birthing experiences
[24:50] Christine’s birthing experience with having a doula
[31:25] How you can reframe what it looks like to work
[37:18] How to consciously work with the things that are the way of the world even if they don’t matter
[42:25] Why you have to practice discernment and listen to yourself
[49:03] How her book deal has been and her journey as an author
[58:33] Choosing what feels like a yes or no to you and embracing that fully

Resources mentioned by Elizabeth in the episode:

Quotes from this Week’s Episode of the Embodied Podcast:

[00:08:21] “When you’re faced with death or life, either initiation, you are bound to in some way have to question the way things are working and how old things are shed.” – Christine Gutiérrez
[00:23:45] “Poetic language is the way that mystics speak.” – Christine Gutiérrez
[00:29:15] “The things that I planted before, have been able to come to fruition now as I am in this phase of new motherhood.” – Christine Gutiérrez
[00:42:00] “Everyone’s dharma is different and everyone needs to really look at that. Don’t compare yourself to others and really stick to what it is that’s burning inside of you to birth and what’s burning inside of you to create because that’s the thing that the world needs from you.” – Christine Gutiérrez
[00:55:52] “This has been one of the strange blessings of the pandemic – people finding their voice, finding their lane, finding what they want to speak about, what is private, and what is nobody’s business.” – Elizabeth DiAlto

How was this episode for you?

Was this episode helpful for you today? I’d love to know what quote or lesson touched your soul. Let me know in the comments below OR share the episode on Instagram, tag me your stories @elizabethdialto, or send me a DM!

About the Embodied Podcast with Elizabeth DiAlto

Since 2013 I’ve been developing a body of work that helps women embody self-love, healing, and wholeness. We do this by focusing on the four levels of consciousness – physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual.

In practical terms, this looks like exploring tools and practices to help you tune into the deep wisdom of the body and the knowing of the heart, which I believe are gateways to our souls. Then we cultivate a new relationship with our minds that allows the mind to serve this wisdom and knowledge and soul connection, rather than override it, which is what many of us were taught.

If you’ve been doing self-help or spiritual development work for a while, these are the types of foundational things that often people overlook in pursuit of fancier concepts that often aren’t practical or sustainable. Here, we will focus on building these strong foundations so you can honestly and thoroughly embody self-love. If you’re feeling it, subscribe to the show, and leave us a review wherever you listen from. You can also keep up with show updates and community discussion on Instagram here.

Transcripts for Episode 383 “I Am Diosa with Christine Gutiérrez” on life, death, and birthing:

– Hello, everybody. Welcome to episode number 383 of the podcast. Today is another long time coming episode. I have Christine Gutiérrez with us today. And Christine is someone I’ve known for so many years. From back when I was living in New York, she was training with Terry Cole to become a therapist. And we’ve both come such a long way from there. This was such a fun episode to really drop in and connect with her. I checked out her book, “I Am Diosa”, last year or the year before. She sent it to me, when it came out and I’ve been following her on Instagram for years, @cosmicchristine. She’s also Puerto Rican, she’s currently living in Puerto Rico. She’s a new mom. And in this episode, she shares about her orgasmic birth, which is a rare but real thing. So that was super fun to talk about. How her rhythms and cycles and how she engages with her work has changed since becoming a mom. And also we really dug into, being people who can’t not speak up for what we believe in and follow our values and integrity, and how that impacts a lot of different choices that we make in our lives, in our work, with our families and our relationships and things like that. So it’s a super juicy episode. If you love this podcast because you love me, you’re gonna love Christine. We’re a lot alike, but of course she’s unique in many incredible ways. So show notes for this episode can be found at untameyourself.com/383. And I’m so excited to share this with you. Enjoy! Christine, you’re finally here!

– We finally did it.

– It’s literally, this is another, this year is like these years in the making episodes that have been like, bound to happen eventually.

– Yep, I’m so excited to be here.

– Me too. So the way I’m starting on interviews this year, like the theme that I’m getting into is, it’s almost like a three pronged question. So I’ll give you the whole gist and you can take it from however you want. I’m really curious how people, what people call God, and how you are currently relating to that and communing with it.

– Hmm. Right now, I’m calling God “Mother”. And for me, the whole journey of La Diosa, the goddess mother has gone so much deeper since my initiation as a mother. And going through that portal.

– So how are you, which, before we started recording, I was like, oh, let me write down something real quick before we start. And the thing I had written down is how has your work and your rhythms changed since becoming a mother?

– Oh girl.

– I don’t wanna ask that yet because I wanna talk a little bit more about what you just said first. So how are you communing differently with God as mother since going through your own portal?

– Yeah. Excellent question. Because… We change. The way we communicate changes, and I’m still changing. I’m still discovering, I’m in the process, right? The first way is that I make use of my time differently. And so I… You know, there’s this image of us like connecting as women before in tribes and just gathering and weaving together baskets and all these things together. You’re using your hands while you’re sharing stories, right? You’re doing two things at the same time. You’re cooking while you’re holding a baby and communicating with your friends about what happened been the night before, sharing stories, sharing laughter, sharing tears. So there’s this energy of a sacred multitasking.

– And breastfeeding while praying. And getting my downloads for my business while I’m laying side by side to my daughter, with her in her mouth and just downloading my next book idea. And that’s how it happened. I just got my second book idea and it happened while I was breastfeeding and praying. But it isn’t the same as before when I was sitting alone in my apartment in Brooklyn. No husband, no baby, and just doing these extensive processes where I’m using all my herbs and doing all these things for like a really long time and getting lost in that. I mean, I do intend for that ritual making to continue to happen and go longer as my daughter gets older. But for now I’ve been really being intentional about these short periods of time as my sacred time. So when my husband has the baby and goes on a walk with her, then I dance naked in the shower and I pray that way. So there are many different ways, but dance, and just movement, and tea. Making my little elixirs with all my herbs in it. These are the simple ways that I pray now. And I put my intention in every single thing I do. So if it’s that tea, I’m putting my prayers in it. Because I know that I need to make use of that time.

– I love this. And they probably aren’t coming out in this order. But last week, the interview that I did was with Sarah Durham Wilson, do you know her? Are you familiar with her work?

– I’m not sure.

– She does this, right now, her work is Maiden to Mother.

– Oh. I need to check her out.

– It’s archetype work. But her portal, that happened for her when she became a birth mother as well. So I’ve been thinking, I’ve literally spent almost the whole last week thinking about what my portal has been like, because I am a child free person. But I shifted into mother quite a while ago. And this thing you said about sacred multitasking and how you use your time, that is just such, such like an emblem, or like a hallmark of the mother energy, whether you’re mothering children, whether you’re birthing creations into the world. Some people do both, like you’re doing both. But it’s interesting because, and especially after the pandemic, something happened for me where I was like, I waste a lot of time on shit that is of no importance.

– Yeah. Yeah!

– So just that moving into that mother energy is like, my time is so valuable. And whether it feels more valuable because it’s limited, whether it feels more valuable because you have something else to be taking care of, whatever you’re nurturing, nourishing, birthing into the world. Or that’s just a part of maturity and mortality, right? Because we were so thrust into so much mortality during the pandemic. I love that and I feel that.

– Yeah, when you’re faced with death or life, either initiation. You are bound to in some way have to question the way things are working and how old things need to shed. Like your snake, and how you need to be reborn. And I really do feel like, I was a mother before I was a mother of a baby, ’cause I was always mothering my clients as I’m sure you can relate. And that archetype was always very present for me. And I do think that it’s important for us to look at the ways in which we are communing with a divine, if they work for us in the season of our life that we’re currently in.

– Yes. Totally. What I also love about this, the divine timing of it. I have a dear friend who creates these incredible temples and ceremonies for women. And she really goes all out with like, the aesthetics and the environment and the food and like all the things. And I was looking at one of her things the other day and I was like, I love that this is for jam. That is not, like for me.

– I think I know who you’re talking about. I love her work.

– Probably.

– The body is the pathway, the portal, and the temple. I don’t need to set a table. I don’t need like all this stuff. But again, that’s her medicine, that’s her magic. But for me I’m like, it’s us. And the other thing. You know I do my Saturday sillies on Instagram?

– Mm-hmm.

– A couple of weeks ago, I posted one that literally so many people have messaged me about and I think about it every day, which was like the spiritual starter pack and the spiritual advanced pack. Where the starter pack was like crystal and tarot cards and the herbs and essentials oils and all the stuff. And then the advanced pack was a cigarette and a cup of coffee.

– That’s right, yep. Yep, I saw that

– At a certain point, yes, we might still work with crystals or have our incense or all these things like you were saying, your herbs and your teas. But we can drop in and access anywhere, anytime.

– The truth is, I remember when I first went through my whole initiation and Kundalini activation, speaking in tongues, the whole nine. I don’t talk about it all the time because it’s a weird thing to talk about with most people. I don’t have it like on my website somewhere. But after that happened I was touching people and they were having all these activations happen and shaking on the ground and releasing and purging. And I remember in the beginning, something happened where I realized that there was nothing outside of me. It was just my communication with whatever I call the divine, that was my way. And I was able to access that and go into that zone without needing external tools. Now the external tools, if they’re fun and they work for you, it’s beautiful because life is ceremony. So whatever ceremony for you. But I also studied as a tantrika in addition to my training as a therapist. And my tantra training is that. That the goddess is found in the body and actually my lineage as sri vidya tantra is about the Shaktism. So it’s the feminine path of divine. And it is all about activating the body, and how when we dance, and that’s what I do. My daughter goes to sleep, I dance by the bed like a lunatic and I feel her, I feel that awakening. My late teacher, Psalm Isadora would call, I asked her once the same question, I said, you know, what’s God to you? And she said “a big vagina in the sky”. And I was like, yeah, it’s her.

– Yeah.

– It’s her.

– I love that. And I love to hear you say that too, life is ceremony. So, I realized recently that the body of work I’d been creating for almost nine years is a mystery school. And I’m like, I’ve just been downloading and channeling like the medicine that was mine to steward in this life, from my ancestors, from my past lives and whatever. Also not something you typically talk about with everybody.

– Yeah. Though I think we’re coming, that’s what’s happening is that we’re coming out of even deeper. I think that, I just got chills. We’re coming out even deeper into our, like, what we said, full circle moment, right? Like when you’re faced with death, you have to think about, how do I really wanna live?

– Yes. Yes!

– And maybe you didn’t actually go through that, and maybe you did, maybe you lost someone. But when it’s closer and you can smell it more, then you have to look at, and we’re saying, I don’t wanna hide anymore. I don’t wanna hide these parts of myself, and F it. I want to embrace those parts of me. So whether it’s you saying, this is really my medicine and sometimes we need to go through enough shit in our life to realize, you know what? I actually do want to be seen fully for who I am. And I’m tired of just playing this one archetype or this one area of my life. I was so scared for so long to offer, and talk about money and business work, and really go there. And I was like, but that’s what I talk about with my friends and I love it.

– All the time.

– I got scared, yeah, I was like, everyone’s doing it, I don’t want it to be like a trend thing, but I love it. It’s genuinely what I love, particularly with Latina women and women of color is like my main calling, but really all women that are called to work with me in that way to help them birth their soul business. So that was a way that I came out of my shell too. But I think we’re finding that more is, how can we give ourselves permission to be more and more and more and more who our soul really is meant to be here on Earth?

– 1000%. So this is part of the medicine in my school. Our, I call it sacred embodiment, because you know. We’ve known each other for a long time. I’ve been doing embodiment work for a really long time. And now it’s like, a word, it’s pretty much common vernacular in this . And it’s funny, ’cause I’m like, of course I didn’t invent embodiment. It predates me by centuries and millennia. But in terms of the internet, I certainly was one of the earlier people like really talking about this on the internet like nine years ago. And now it’s like, everyone’s a fucking embodiment coach. So this was part of, the medicine had to like, changing the names of everything to be like, okay, but this is sacred embodiment, right? Like I’m not a trauma healer. These aren’t the scientific, psychological, somatic practices, although that’s there. But this thing that we were just saying is like the body being the portal. And like you’re saying, you could tap into, there’s a stream that you could tap into at any moment. Any day.

– Right now I feel it.

– Any moment. It doesn’t matter what kind of mood you’re in either. And that’s the other thing that’s so important.

– Yeah.

– Right? It doesn’t matter. You don’t have to be good vibes only. You could be in the shittiest mood ever. You could be Negative Nancy up in here, and you can tap into that stream.

– Yeah, I think that that’s really important and that’s a big part of my work is that. Knowing that there’s this sacred in all emotions. And that definitely has to do with my background as a therapist, but in general, just who I am as a person, I consider everything sacred. I consider there’s holiness in the perverse, there’s beauty in the breakdown. There’s all this contradiction of medicine found in all places. And I think it’s a really boring world if you think that you can only connect to the divine when you’re happy, because actually the divine most seeks to connect to us when we are needing it. And there’s a different taste of the divine in your mouth when you are in a shitty place in your life. And when you’re really breaking down. When you really are raw and vulnerable, because you become like a divine child that needs a sacred mother, that needs a sacred father. So there’s a tenderness there, and it’s just different. It’s not better, it’s just different. But for sure, I think that that’s something to bust the myth around is for anyone that’s feeling tender, emotional, blah, blah, blah, is that that’s a wonderful place to be to connect. And it doesn’t need to look like a zing of power. Like all this elated energy. No, it can just be a really tender, soft hug while you cry.

– And you know what? Something I’ve been working the last couple years is how can I be tender and soft even when I’m not in like a vulnerable place?

– Yeah.

– Like receptive in that way, even when things are great. Or just fine, just like neutral, so that I don’t have to find chaos or trauma or drama to get to that tender place.

– Yeah, because that’s another thing. When you’re used to a certain kind of way to access the divine, you can get used to only going to seek the divine in that particular setup. So then you have to look at your life and say, am I connecting to the divine only out of desperation? Or am I recreating a pattern to feel that tenderness in this example? Or can I experience it in all moments and let it be just a normal part of life? And that way you subconsciously are not recreating patterns just to go through that whole loop again. Instead, you’re just really co-creating in an empowered way, using the tools that you have. Because that’s why we do this work, right? We do this work so we can really truly break free.

– Yeah, yeah. Okay, so let me come back to this question. You kinda touched on it, but I wanna go deeper. So since becoming a mother, how have your rhythms changed? How has your work changed? And I literally mean like your work, like what you do, because I’ve seen you, literally, all these offerings, and one of my women who did my teacher training last year, Sonia has done, ’cause she’s in Puerto Rico. Has done some of your circles. So I know you’re doing different things now, too. So I wanted to hear about that.

– Yeah. I mean, in terms of rhythm, everything has changed. I am slower. I am more mindful about live time. I have shifted mostly everything to online, but in a way that I show up powerfully during a container of time, and then I disappear.

– Yeah.

– My main focus is my daughter and mothering. I didn’t know I was gonna be that way. I didn’t. It was total… I was open to the mystery. And for me just being fully hands on, playing with her, breastfeeding her and all these things, that has come first. And so my work and my clients know that now. That no matter what I will pause and breastfeed for my daughter. I will, if she’s speaking to me, I will always respond to her, no matter where I am or no matter what I’m doing. And then continue and flow because that is, ’cause she is my north star. And so I integrate her in everything. So from infant, from eight weeks old, we went to Vieques, another island in Puerto Rico. And I did my diosa retreat. The difference was that I co-collaborated with two powerful healers here, , who helped me hold space for circles. I had never done that. I had hired people to co-teach, but I had never held space with other collaborators, And it was so powerful. We were like the holy diosa trinity, really doing spiritual surgeries, purging. and the work in that way has always been the same, but the way that I collaborated and the depth in which I collaborated with other women went to the next level. Because I needed to be held.

– Yes.

– And I had more support. Because I had a doula. Quite literally, her birth doula for me, but also for baby Mandalus. And for my husband too, ’cause we were all there. So there was this need in recognizing that I deserve that. Not only now, but in all seasons and all women deserve this. We deserve that support, we deserve to collaborate together. Because even if you don’t have a child, we have emotions, we’re changing. We have grief. We have transitions. And when we go through those transitions, especially as spiritual entrepreneurs, we tend to push through and not get the real help we need because we’re not birthing, quote unquote, a person. But it’s like, dude, you’re birthing yourself. If you’re birthing yourself and you’re going through a whole breakdown and breakthrough, how can you support yourself in that season? So for me, I mean that has been number one. Number two has been that I think more about how can I make big chunks of money in shorter periods of time, just being completely 100 about like money is a priority, it’s still the currency we use to pay for the things and have the organic food and do the healthy things that I need to do for my family. So I think like that now, in bigger ways, even easier ways, how can I work even easier? So ease has been important to me more than ever.

– I love that. Okay I wanna come back to this birthing, you know, we’ve gone through this. What do we wanna call it? Well, let’s call it a face. In the last few years, you know, we’ve become so… I’m gonna say sensitive, that’s not necessarily the most accurate word, but we’ve become so sensitive about language, right? Everyone wants to be like, we shouldn’t call that this, we shouldn’t do this, don’t call that that, this offends this group of people, this offends that group of people. And then meanwhile, often it’s the people policing that aren’t even a member. Aren’t in that group. And when you ask people in that group, they’re like, nope, don’t care about that. And I remember, what’s coming up for me, as you were talking about birthing and birthing yourself and all those things was someone a couple years ago, who was a doula, is a doula, had said, she thought it was like offensive or inappropriate that people used the language of birthing to talk about, well I’m birthing a book or I’m birthing a business. And I was like, wow, I vehemently disagree with this.

– Yeah.

– ‘Cause birth is such, like, that is what is happening. It’s just different. You’re not birthing a person. And I don’t think anyone is ever trying to equate a creative birth

– Of course not.

– with a physical birth!

– Yeah, I think that we get to say the things that feel right for us, as long as we’re not hurting others. And I feel, truly, now that I’ve given birth to a baby, it’s a totally different experience. And like you said, no one would even dare to say that there’s-

– That’s not what anyone is trying to say.

– But birthing a project feels relevant. Because it comes from the cosmos into creations.

– Yes, yes.

– And that’s poetry, right? In poetry, what we do is we use language and we compare things that don’t belong. And so poetic language is the way that the mystics speak. Any mystic, and any kind of spiritual teacher will usually try to access that part of your brain by comparing, using these analogies to help you understand things on a deeper level. So I think that I love poetic language. I can only speak to that and say, I think it’s important to use the language that feels good. So yes.

– And this is a really good point. I like the sensation that you’re making because I find actually even in my clients, like the people who love, I use a lot of storytelling in my work and the people who love my metaphors typically tend to be the more mystically oriented people. And that’s not like better. We’re not talking about like, there’s no hierarchy, there’s no superiority. But it’s resonance or dissonance, you know? I also wanted to ask you, for anyone listening, who either has had the experience, is gonna be able to relate, or anyone who might be thinking about having the experience. Tell me about having a doula.

– Yeah. I loved it. My doula is one of the people that goes to all the trainings and does all the things, and she’s spiritual, but she’s technical, and her name is Andrea. And she came to my retreat. She came to my retreat, my diosa retreat. And I met her there, and I remember seeing her and saying, you’re gonna be my doula one day.

– Hmm.

– She ended up being my doula and taking care of me and my husband and the baby. And really, she was my support. She did my yoga classes. She held my body as I gave birth. I did a home birth. And moved me and told me , how delicious it is to give birth, and she kept on repeating that to me and her energy and her presence really allowed me to feel safe. And I would say that her and my husband were my rock. Besides my spiritual connection. And I was able to, I don’t think because I had those things, I think is also like a mystery who gets to have these orgasmic bursts and who doesn’t. I don’t think you can do all the things right and then it happens. I think there’s so much more to that. I don’t wanna imply that this is for just anyone. But it was my experience that I had this magical, powerful birth. And it was pleasurable and amazing. I kept on saying, oh my God, I love it. I love it. So I made my husband suck my nipples as her head crowned. So she’s gonna be totally embarrassed in the future when she hears this story. Suck my nipples!

– Mom, please stop telling people the nipple story!

– Don’t tell anyone! Such a Scorpio mom thing. Like, don’t do it! I’m gonna like hold myself to do it until she’s older. But it was beautiful.

– She’s gonna be the like, rolling her eyes. You know how we all have, all of our parents are like grandparents or loved ones, Whoever raised us. There’s always those stories where we’re like oh, not again. That’s gonna be the nipple story.

– She was there pre-birth, during birth, and post birth, ’cause we also hired her as my postpartum doula to stay with us and the baby and help us overnight with her. And she still comes to retreats and helps out. And she’s a part of our life. She’s my soul sister.

– I love this.

– And then helped mother her and she helped mother me.

– Oh. And then this doula word, this is another word, I like to call things doulas. I’m helping my friend launch her first podcast. And I’m her podcast doula. ‘Cause bringing something into the world, and I love that they exist because we all need that.

– Yep.

– Right? In this culture, the way society is for most of us, the way we don’t have a village that we’re built to have, these doulas are such a friggin’ blessing.

– They are. I mean, absolutely. I wouldn’t have been able to have the level of presence that I had in my birth had it not been for her.

– Yeah. Wow. I love that. Okay, so what else is happening? How old’s the baby now?

– She’s gonna be 10 months in how many days, in three days.

– Amazing. And then, so what’s happening? So you said earlier you’re moving into this like helping people birth their soul business.

– Yeah.

– Yes, go ahead.

– Doing all the things. So I still do my diosa retreat, but now with more support. This is like the spiritual purge where I hold space for people to like really go into their childhood traumas and renew and shed, and on a shamanic level, really.

– Yeah, yeah.

– And really help integrate and call back all their soul pieces. I have my second book that came through the portal of breastfeeding, and I was waiting, and I did two proposals, and it didn’t feel right. I was like, this is not it. So important for people to know. It’s not always the first idea or the second idea. It was the third one. Full proposal. Full proposal and it was like, this is not it, this is not it. And life will show you what you feel aligned to. I only write about what I’m really going through, what feels relevant for me for a significant period of time.

– Yes. And so I didn’t wanna write about the topics that came through at the time. And so that’s coming next. My affirmation cards are coming that I had done so long ago. And this is the beautiful thing about this season is that the things I planted before have been able to come through fruition now, as I’m in this phase of new motherhood. And it allowed for more ease in my life because as a business owner, as an entrepreneur, I really thrive on doing things that creatively bring me joy, that bring big impact, but that are easy. Because I’m not the kind of person that likes to hustle and work a lot. It’s just not my jam. I never have been that way. It may look like I do a lot on the outside. People are like, oh wow, you do so much, how you do it? And I’m like, it’s so funny, ’cause in my day to day, social media doesn’t show you anything. My day to day is, I wake up, I’m with my daughter and my husband. My husband is in charge of all the food ’cause I exclusively breastfeed. So he cooks for her. And I’m just full on mom mode. That’s my mode all day. And then I sprinkle in throughout, like little ideas and I write, and when she goes to sleep, I’m writing on my computer, but really, that’s what my day looks like. So it may look like I’m doing a lot, but I actually don’t. I actually don’t work that often. And I’m with my daughter.

– Are you into human design at all?

– I’ve heard of it. I’m a manifesting generator. I was literally gonna be like, are you a manifesting generator? Cause I’m a manifesting generator. And same, like I obviously do produce, put out so much, create so many things. And I always say to people, if you knew how much time is downtime for me, you would be shocked. But I also think this is part of being a mystic. Because while it doesn’t look like we’re doing anything, that could be, like I had this experience recently where it feels like for the whole first three months of the year, I started out with an emergency surgery, then I was recovering, and then I was reevaluating, reorganizing. And then it’s been like, the last three weeks are kind of like this birth canal where it’s like, okay, and now we’re, the website is getting updated, this is happening, the deliverables are happening. But honestly there was like a three month runway leading up to that. It’s just that you’re seeing all of it now. That’s a very manifesting generator thing.

– It is. And we can reframe what it looks like to work. There’s a season of creativity that’s important in that process of when you do a soul aligned business, you need that time to really be with yourself, to go through those transitions.

– Yes!

– Learn what you need to learn from. So for me, that’s the way I like to work. That’s how I like to craft my days. And I’m really going to be stepping into that even more. As I move forward in my business, I really wanna craft even more luxury for myself ’cause it was something that I was always scared to own. As a Latina woman building business, I felt like a sellout and all these old paradigms. And I was like, whatever. Again, facing all of that death energy and rebirth energy. I was like, F that, I wanna be the embodiment of what, as I have been, like part of my medicine is that I do things and I show people that they can do it too.

– Yes, yes!

– So that Latina women can know that they can do it too. I did, women of color, Latina women specifically, know that they can do it too, and then I help show them how to do it. Like actually give them the tools. So for me it’s like, that’s what I wanna do next.

– And I love this. I think this is actually extra, extra, extra important for women of color. My friend Brandy gave me this term which I love, people of the global majority.

– Yeah.

– Right, ’cause BIPOC, we are people of the global majority. So I love that reminder and that articulation. Don’t forget. We might live in a supremacist culture. But you are the global majority. I actually think it’s so important because, you know, when people of certain levels of privilege or who occupy an array of dominant identities are out here being like, well, I did it. You could do it too. Or I did it, why can’t you do it? That’s a different conversation than somebody who doesn’t occupy all the dominant identities going, okay. It’s more like creating a roadmap, right?

– It helps people to know like my girl Ana Flores, who created “We All Grow”. She created that summit and really gave me the space to step on stage and share my voice and get paid to do what I love. But part of that initiation for the people in the audience was like, this is a Latina woman speaking about spirituality, getting paid, being on stage. And it shifted. And what Ana always says is when one grows, we all grow. And so I really do believe that it’s helpful to see people that sound like you, that look like you, that have a similar story to you. Whether it’s identity, or whether it’s a trauma related thing, or whether it’s a certain experience that you specifically went through, it is empowering and really helpful for people to know that yes, I can learn. I can learn to do it. And it unlocks codes in people to say, this is possible for me. And I’ve owned also recently that I do that for people. That is part of my gift. And that I love to do that for people. I had Linda Luz who owns this company called In Luz We Trust. And she talks about the stock market and specifically helping the BIPOC community invest and make money. And the first time she heard me on stage, was this opening for her to first start her spiritual podcast. And it opened up the gates for her to then do this business, and it’s something we’re always reminding each other of how powerful it is to be and show our true light so that others that are there can experience it and grow and expand. And she’s just the person that comes to my mind, ’cause we always cry when we talk to each other of how we do that for one another. And now she’s doing this in the stock market. And I’m like, hey girl, I just signed up for your course. She’s like, you’re in my class again? I’m like, yeah, anything you do, I’m gonna buy. I love it. And so it’s like this, you feed me, I feed you, the same thing with my doula. She came to my diosa retreat. I hired her as my diosa, this kind of community building, but for real, for real.

– Yes. Yes!

– And financial currency and support emotionally. It’s like, that’s what I thrive on. That’s the diosa for me, that’s that true sisterhood for me.

– I love this. This is one of the things, I’ve been looking at who to have as guest teachers in the school. And I have a couple of girlfriends who are just so incredible. They’re such incredible practitioners. They don’t have big platforms. You probably wouldn’t know their names. And I’m like, and this is exactly why you’re the people I want. These people that everyone knows who they are, whatever. The word commercialized comes to mind, you know? This is something I go back and forth on and I’d be super curious how you feel about this because we live in this world of platform.

– Yeah.

– And influence, which is, I bet you get this too. I’m not an influencer. You’re not an influencer. We’re actual practitioners. We have platforms because we’ve been doing this shit for so fucking long. That’s why.

– And not even that huge, but yes, yeah.

– Well, that’s the thing, right? When I meet like regular people out in the world, I’m like, oh, what’s your Instagram? When they get to mine, and they see like 20 whatever thousand followers, they’re like, damn! And I’m like, this is nothing.

– Yeah.

– What I would compare myself to were these people with like hundreds of thousands, if not over a million. Which also I don’t measure anything by freaking followers. And that’s the difference, right?

– Yes.

– We live in this world where I don’t give a fuck if somebody has like 87,000 followers. That doesn’t tell me anything about them other than that they need Instagram for their business or something, or whatever. But… We… Also, like you were saying about money, this is the way of the world. This is also one of the things that we have to dance with, that this is a thing. And I don’t like it, but how do we work with it consciously?

– Yeah, I mean, with social media or any kind of platform, I think, first of all, it’s this. Are you believing that people are worthy because of what they produce?

– Girl.

– Period.

– If you are one of those people that find yourself and we all have a little touch of that, whether we like to think of it or not, like really go there and really think of that. Especially I know like early people that were building the spiritual community, we were babies and we were learning so many things at once. And sometimes when you’re learning so much, you get lost, you get lost. So I think it is important to remind yourself that our values of how you truly are in real life is what matters. Are you kind? Are you compassionate? Are you of integrity? Do you care about people? Do you want to help someone out? Are you loving? That’s what I care about now. That’s the spiritual piece. The business piece. You want a book deal? They’re gonna ask you about your platform.

– Exactly.

– But there’s ways around that too. There’s ways around that. Not everyone needs to have that kind of platform to make it. And I think it’s important to remind people of that. There is one route, which is like, yes, you need to have a platform. And there are plenty of people that are doing things without platforms that have incredible bodies of work in the real world, and that have-

– In the real world, not just on the internet.

– And that happens to have it. Is it important in some ways, as of right now today, yes. But I do think that it’s important to remind yourself that there’s never just one way to do it. And when I got my book deal, I didn’t have a big following. I had like 10,000 followers, which was still bigger than what most people thought at the time. But what it was was like, here’s my body of work. I’m different. There’s not a Latina voice that’s speaking on spiritual topics as a therapist. And a lot of work, doing the work. Living the embodiment of that work. And so I think it’s important to not get caught up on those things, and to first focus on the body of work that you’re creating and how you view people should be on their hearts and how they show up, period. That’s the most important thing to me. I really get frustrated with people only choosing people because of their numbers.

– And you and I have been around long enough to, we’ve seen this happen where somebody, for whatever reason, they write an article that goes viral. Or they knew somebody, or a random celebrity shared something. And all of a sudden they have this big platform, but they don’t have skills.

– Yeah.

– Or they don’t have like experience holding space, creating containers or whatever. But now all of a sudden people think they are somehow qualified because, so like, followers does not equal qualified. Sometimes.

– Sometimes, yeah, exactly. And I think it’s important to use discernment and to really think about, especially if you’re learning and you’re just starting out to really focus your time on doing the work.

– Yeah.

– So you can, in your own life, but also, doing the things that you need to do to be a proper space holder, so that you can be safe and not hurt people. And that you know that it’s important to balance as a soul based business person. That soul always comes first.

– Yeah.

– And that means that even when you gotta let go of something that you don’t want to that’s making you money. Or you’re like, fuck, I know I could do this thing and it’s gonna be great, but it doesn’t align with your values. Then it’s a no. Then it’s always a no. And if you do that long enough, you will be rewarded. You will. And the reward is what? Being in integrity with yourself first. And I’m being honest. And I think that I’ve had a very slow road to what I consider my path. It’s not one of those that I blew up with tons of followers.

– Same.

– I’ve always been like this person that, my definition of success by the way, is alignment with soul. That’s my definition of success. And so for me, I am successful. I’m in alignment with my soul and I produce bodies of work that all are truly me. There’s no more success that I could, you know, and I live off of my work, which is a blessing. But it’s not, everyone’s dharma is different. And everyone needs to really look at, don’t compare yourself to others, and really stick to what it is that’s burning inside of you to birth, and what’s burning inside of you to create, because that’s the thing that the world needs from you. I really do believe that when we listen to ourselves, deeply, and we allow ourselves to keep shifting and growing and not getting caught up in the midst of whatever the new trend is or the new thing is, and if you really listen to yourself, you’ll see that you always come out winning. And I just wanna say this, I think it’s important, what you said about, online world has changed so much. And I think it’s important to practice what mental health looks like for you online. And if that means that getting followers is hurting you or listening to too much of the news is hurting you and it’s disrupting you, that it’s okay. I’m telling you as a healer, as a therapist, sorry, there’s a plane coming by.

– Can’t hear it.

– That you need to practice mental health practices for yourself and boundaries for yourself. And so whether that’s in anything triggering, you just listen to that and notice so that you can really take care of yourself, because I’ve seen way too many people that are in the spiritual world, just losing it for things that are not worth it. And it’s important to talk about that.

– 1000%. So I wrote down a couple things. So we have this in common. I actually hate the term late bloomer. Because I believe in divine timing. So I don’t believe in late, but you and I are like very similar in that timeline where it’s like, we’re just building bodies of work. We’re doing our things. We’re getting our trainings. We’re learning, we’re practicing, we’re living, we’re walking our talk, we’re embodying, we’re fucking up, we’re fixing, you know? And gradually, like you said, you get rewarded for that, and I wrote down, the reward is alignment.

– That’s right. The reward is being in alignment with what you do.

– You are. You don’t have to do those things. You don’t have to do things that are out of your integrity to make money. ‘Cause listen, I don’t judge people who have to like, keep a job or do a thing or work for someone or work for a company or, you know, like so many people out here during the pandemic found themselves having to get a vaccine that they wouldn’t have chosen to get, just so they could keep their job. We live in a time where we’re constantly faced with these double binds. So I don’t have any judgment for that. But when you have the courage to really live in alignment with your values and your soul, literally the reward is then being in alignment. And this is what I find. The success comes more easily. You were talking about ease a lot.

– Yeah.

– From alignment. I have a friend, my salsa instructor here, Azael, who’s amazing, I love him so much. I just go for lessons every week. I’m a very good dancer, I probably don’t need any more lessons. But I mean, you always need, whatever. I love it, so much joy. Some people go to the personal trainer, I go to my salsa instructor every week. And he’s expanding, he teaches at the house that he lives at outside. So summer’s coming where Miami is gonna be super hot. You’re in Puerto Rico, you get this. And so he’s gonna get some fans and an enclosure and stuff, so he did a GoFundMe to raise the money to be able to get this stuff now. And he raised his money in two days. And he was in shock. He was shocked. I wasn’t. And I’m like, clearly this is what you’re supposed to be doing. And so of course it’s gonna flow, because that’s how alignment works. So back in the fall, I did an episode about rewiring your money mindset And I listed like these four S’s, which were like, satisfaction, sufficiency, soulfulness, and sustainability. ‘Cause you mentioned success earlier. And so for me, that’s it. Alignment of these things. Is everything I get to do, does it feel infused, it’s soulful, it’s deeply satisfying, right? It’s sufficient. What’s enough? I don’t need to be, like my ego, kind of like you’re talking about, the same way we’re not attached to the followers. Yes, more money, the more we have, the more we can give, the more we could do, right? But my ego isn’t attached to being like, I run a seven figure. You’re never gonna see me posting that on the internet.

– And you see, I, for me, because I go back to like, you might see me post something like that, why? For me, it’s what I said about-

– You’re doing that work.

– But also, because I want people to know, especially Latina women to know that we can do it. Especially with the book deals, I talk about my numbers all the time. I really want people to be empowered in knowing how much did I make with this deal. What does an agent need to get, like really empowering people with numbers. And, but, going back to what you were saying with money, I’ve come to a point in my money journey where more isn’t more. Meaning, more money isn’t more. I want my money to stretch wider. And what does that look like? That means what space and place in the world feels good to me to call home next? And that’s something my husband and I are exploring. And so really thinking about luxury and money differently, what does that look like again right now for me? Because before it was like, I wanna make more, but I don’t have that drive in that way since I’ve become a mother, it’s different now. So I’m looking at, okay, well abundance is gonna look a little bit different for me now. So I wanna let go of the idea of numbers and look at like, what does it feel like? Do I have more, less expenses? Do I wanna feel more free? That’s what I wanna feel. So there is this place, again, of letting go of ego with anything that we do, and looking at what really works for us. Even letting go of old ideas of what certain things worked for me back then, because everything’s shifting so fast for me right now. And so I’m in a space of really being in total mystery and being like, what the F is next, okay, what do I want? What do I wanna do? What needs to die, what needs to be reborn, what needs fresh energy?

– Yeah. Well that’s the sustainability piece, what you’re talking about. What needs to stretch, what needs to, you know. Even moving, I’m so happy with my one bedroom apartment.

– Yeah.

– You know? And people are like, even the market here in Miami is outta control and people are like, do you think you’re ever gonna want a house? I’m like, I could die in this apartment. I would not like to, anytime soon, let me just let everybody know. But like, this is sufficient, you know? I can do so much here. Then I wanna be nosy ’cause I love talking about numbers. Tell me the book deals, the book numbers. How was, first one, second one?

– I got a six figure book deal.

– Yes! The first one or the second one or both?

– First one. So first one, six figure book deal. The deck, I can’t say the exact number ’cause I’m not allowed, but I got the highest number that you can get for a deck.

– Cool.

– Which is great. The second one, I got a little bit less because the way it works in book publishing is that you need to earn out the number. So once you earn out the number, then you can negotiate having more. So it made sense for me since it was so close to my old one, that it will eventually earn out, but they wanna make sure that they’re gonna get that profit. So it’s still high.

– Is it the same publisher that’s doing the deck?

– No. Same publisher for the book, which is TarcherPerigee, which is part of Penguin Random House, which is, you know, one of the best in the game, and they’re amazing.

– Yeah.

– And my deck is gonna be with Hay House. And so I had a lot of feelings towards figuring out what felt right, what didn’t, and this is an important part of me choosing for myself as becoming a mother was there was a lot of things that happened on social media with friends of mine that I didn’t love that happened to them, ways of being treated, et cetera, et cetera. And I had to show up and say, what feels good for this particular body of work? What feels good for me in terms of who am I working with? Do they respect me? Do they value me? Do they honor me? And how can I pave the way for others to do the same? And so I chose that and I said yes to that. And that was a big deal for me because living in this culture of like, being outspoken, I’m very outspoken about what I think is wrong or right, and et cetera. But I also give room for everyone to have their own feelings and opinions. The same thing with the vaccine. I was very like, whatever works for you, you know? And I wasn’t that way in the beginning, I was more like, oh, but I don’t know, and science and this and that. And I waited and I was hesitant. It was all these things, but it was a moment in time, and I think this is a moment in time for so many people to really say, how can I choose me and how can I choose to be loving amidst different opinions? And so my book, the deck deal was kind of like that for me, I had to really go in and say, does this feel in alignment with me? Even though in the past, there have been things that I thought were in alignment with this company with some of my friends, does it feel in alignment? And the answer was a yes, which was very shocking for me. And I had to break free from that ego of like, well, I’m this person that stands up for things, what does that look like? How does that feel? But I’m a mom. And I have things that I wanna do and I have things that are a yes and a no, and it was a yes for me, despite it. And so that takes a lot of guts, for anyone to stand in the conviction of what it is that’s right for them. And I’m happy that I chose that for myself. But I think that again, in this spiritual world, we’re dealing with a lot of opposites.

– Totally.

– And people feeling like they have to choose a side, if not, then they’re not gonna be loved or worthy or good enough. And I just wanna break that myth, and just say again, that it is complex, and there’s no right or wrong. Totally, unless you’re like abusing someone. And companies are complex. And Amazon is complex and everything’s complex. And yet I still have to use it because I’m here in Puerto Rico and that’s how I get so many of my daughter’s toys. There’s so many things that are complex and so nuanced. So I say that all to say that, when I announced my deck deal, when I announced that, there’s things that are more publicly known and there’s other companies that other things happen and no one knows, but at the end of the day, are you choosing to be of integrity to what feels right to you and are the people honoring you and are you gonna do your part to help others? And my answers when I sat with my soul were yes, I’m gonna help pave the way for others to the same, so yes.

– And-

– And all that jazz, but it’s really important for me, Because this is

– I think part of my practice.

– it’s so important. And I’m so glad you brought this up because, this choosing sides thing, again, there’s a lot of people out here who wanna call themselves spiritual, who wanna talk about their relationship with God or whatever, or even call themselves a mystic. But the fact is you are really not, if you can’t get into the nuance, and if you can’t get into the gray, because that is the mystery. That’s where the mystery lives. This is all about paradox.

– And I don’t love living in this time of like- But at the same time, so many of the people I love. Like just, if we’re taking one topic, you know, with the vaccine, like I, so many people I love didn’t, and so many people I love did, and I don’t have to share what I did or what I didn’t do publicly and no one else has to. But at the same time, it was a stand for love for the people that I love, ’cause I respect them. And as long as I think people are being careful and honest about health as we should always be, and I think that that’s important. And the same thing with anything we decide to do with our businesses or anything, like we really have to be delicate and really understand that there’s so many different things that go into someone’s ability to choose something, right?

– So many.

– So let’s just, now that we are coming out this other end of all the things, let’s just try to practice that. And if someone is doing something that you think is really awful and you feel called to speak on it, ’cause that’s part of your dharma, then do you. I’m discovering what my place is and how my voice is best used. And I’ve gone to one extreme sometimes and I’ve gone to another extreme sometimes. And right now I’m kind of like chill. I’m kind of in a place in my life where I’m just like, do you, I have so much stuff going on in my own world that I just wanna be who I authentically am and try to practice kindness as much as I can. And if I need to speak out on something, trust me, I will. But I feel good about that.

– Yeah.

– I feel good about that, and I feel freedom in that because I’m not doing something because someone thinks something of me. I don’t need to prove anything to anyone online.

– ‘Cause that makes it performative. That makes it, that’s like, literally the definition of performative.

– I just can’t, if I feel forced to do something, I can’t, I have to be real and I have to share who I am. So that’s who I am. That’s what it is. That’s what this work is about for me and no matter what,

– Love that.

– that’s how it will be for here on out is just keeping authentic.

– And this has been one of the strange blessings of the pandemic is people actually finding, finding their voice, finding their lane, finding what they wanna speak up about, what they don’t, what is private, what is nobody’s business, how do we mind our own business? What does it mean to care for your neighbor as you care for self while also, without sacrificing, or dishonoring or disrespecting yourself? And it’s funny because in the beginning, and the vaccine has been like such a thing to bring this out and bring this forward for so many people. ‘Cause in the beginning, I wasn’t really saying anything publicly, and people were just assuming I was vaccinated because of the company I keep. But for me I was getting, I’m an embodiment person, my body was like, no. I was like, okay, if my body’s a no I’m a no. But you know, I’m gonna take every precaution or whatever. And then at a certain point, when things started to get really shamey towards unvaccinated people, I started to speak up. Not for not getting the vaccine. I don’t care, I’m like, I’m bodily autonomy, like you said. Whatever feels right and best for you and your family, please do that all day long. And again, whatever choice you make or don’t make, be respectful of other people, be considerate. But it’s funny, because I was speaking about that, I was getting some people thinking I’m anti-vax. And I’m like, no. I’m anti try to force anybody to do anything.

– Yeah it’s truly I think of that-

– I don’t like to call myself anti-anything. But if I am anti-anything, it’s anti coercion, anti-oppression, anti forcing people trying to control other people. ‘Cause like you said, which I love, there’s literally so many factors that go into all kinds and that this vaccine’s just a great example that came up and we’re using it, but we don’t know all the reasons why.

– No, and I did it. And I was confused and I waited and I was like, I don’t really want to, ’cause I was breastfeeding, you know, again, factors that I didn’t do when I was pregnant ’cause my body was a no. And so I kept on saying like, I like that I had the freedom to, you know, say yes or no to what feels good for my body.

– That was probably so comforting to be pregnant and be like, well I’m pregnant, and then people just left you alone about it.

– Yeah, but even then, people had oh, it’s fine, it’s fine. And it’s like, okay, it’s fine for some people, but it wasn’t fine for me. And again, like going through that process, it’s again an example of something and I think that, you know… There is so much to learn about how to apply this one specific thing

– Yes.

– with many things in our life of what feels like a yes or a no and I think ultimately, mo matter what you choose, it has to feel like you’re choosing it for you. Meaning even if you choose it, anything in life that you arrive at something like saying, you know what, I don’t know for sure. But if this feels like I’m gonna do it, then I’m gonna say yes for me. Not because of anything else, because you have to make choices that feel okay. That they weigh it out, and at the end you’re like, okay, if I chose this, it’s okay, I’m okay with it. And so, for me, I was like, as of today, I was like, I’m not getting a booster, for example. Now my people might hear this ’cause I never talk about this, but I just feel like being, you know, more vulnerable than what I share in my online space ’cause it’s a deeper conversation. Cause it didn’t, it felt like a no for today. And so I think that let people go through their own discovery and figure things out, and then especially when something’s new and scary. And so this goes for anything in life, let people figure it out. As a therapist, I hold space for people to go through their own journeys on their time. I’m not imposing my own version of what healing or figuring things out looks like on them. And I think we can continue to learn, and do better. And to be nice to people that we love, despite it, as long as they’re careful and respectful of what we feel. So yes, kindness always.

– I love that. And then the other thing you said that I just wanna come back to was about choosing to go with Hay House, which could be a controversial place. And I know there was all kinds of things with, especially people of color, and Hay House not being an organization that’s a safe place. But I also love, and I think it’s so important to consider, I was just talking with a friend of mine about this over the weekend, about something else, about being in a place like that and being an agitator.

– Yeah, and I am that person.

– Exactly.

– And I’m working with some wonderful people that have only treated me amazing so far. And I’m gonna make sure that they do the same for others to my best ability. And that for me is my priority. And I think no one has ever in my career talked shit about me, I guess, because in that way I’ve always been authentic and I’ve always said and spoken about things that matter. And I give myself permission to share the real truth behind it. And why I say yes to things, and what’s my role there, what am I gonna help people to do, and how am I gonna help empower people? And ultimately I’m a mama, and I’m a business owner, and I have things that I need to pay and things that I wanna do and I wouldn’t have said yes if it was a no in my body. But the team that I’m working with is a yes. And so, yeah, follow your yeses, even when it seems controversial, and do your part to make a difference.

– Do your part to make a difference. Like what you said, there’s this free that I love, I don’t know where it comes from, but it’s “lift as you climb”.

– Yep. Always lifting, I love that. I never heard that, lift as you climb. But if I had to pick a model for my vibe, it would be-

– Yes! Exactly.

– That’s what I do. It’s like, as soon as I’m in, I already speak and I speak boundaries from the beginning with anyone I work with, I’m like, hey, here’s the deal. I don’t want my face on the cover or here’s what I want or here’s what I believe in and here’s what I wanna make sure you do and how can I help? Because that’s who I am in every place I go. So I do believe in the power of changing things and I’m a bridge. I’m a bridge. That’s my spiritual mission is I’m a bridge.

– And this other part, what did you just say? I didn’t write it down. Oh, oh, oh. Because something I really don’t like is when people are like, well they’ve been good to me. But you said they’ve been wonderful to me so far, and I’m gonna do everything in my power to make sure that’s how they are with other people.

– Yeah, because it’s not about me, ’cause how they treat one person doesn’t mean that they’re gonna treat other people that way. But again, this is not about one organization. It’s about anything, that, if you see something, as a spiritual person, it is my role to speak up for those that don’t have the voice to speak it. Whatever my privilege is, I use it for the good. whatever I’ve been gifted, I use it for the good.

– And you’re a person who right now is pretty well resourced.

– Yep.

– And you weren’t always.

– Nope.

– But because you are now, you could also, it might make a lot of sense for some people to be like, no, this is not good for me, this is not healthy for me or whatever, you’re like, this works for me.

– And I helped some people out, and I got them up with an agent, and I’ve helped it, because every single person has a piece in the puzzle and you don’t know what it looks like. And I trust that. So it is, again, for me, that was a huge spiritual assignment. I was like, whoa.

– Yeah.

– And do, what? For the girl that talked shit? Is this okay? Are you all right Christine? And really sitting with that, and being like, giving myself permission to move and weave into places that aren’t necessarily black and white, it’s just great. And I trust myself. That’s what it is. I know me.

– Yes.

– I know my heart and I know how I show up and I know the work I do. Again, going back to the beginning, that is most what I’m here to do.

– I love it.

– Is help other people to do the same. So I love that quote, lift as you climb.

– We gotta look it up, I gotta see where it comes from. Okay, where do the people find you? Website, Instagram, all the places.

– CosmicChristine on Instagram. I haven’t changed it. I don’t even know if I ever will.

– I love it so much, I hope you don’t.

– First of all, I’m one of the people that if I meet you in a certain place, I never change your name in my phone. So it’s like, met you in corner store on Park Street in Brooklyn. That’s the whole name on your phone, it’s never getting changed no matter how close we are. So I don’t think it’s gonna change. But you can find my book “I Am Diosa”, wherever books are sold. And my website is christineg.tv.

– Love it. Thank you so much. I’m so glad we finally friggin’ got to do this.

– Me too. And thank you for giving me the space because of your voice and how you share the nuances within your personality to allow me to do the same.

– Of course, it’s so fun. I love, I was so, I was like, yes, like I love what I can dive in, ’cause I know people are gonna be able to go there with me, you know? Best.

– Love that. All right, mama, I’m gonna let you get back to that. Thank you, everyone listening, follow Christine, share the episode, find all of her things. Thank you so much.

– Thank you, mama.

– Bye.

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